Sully speaks out on pay

[BoeingBoy]

Except that those were CASM numbers for HP and US mainline - express wasn't included (though if it had been the differences would be greater).

Jim

 

[sharktooth]

Meanwhile HP may not have had the franchise but they had something better - costs low enough to allow them to slug it out with WN year after year.

WN has low costs because they are pretty darn smart about how they manage. Highest paid labor along with lowest "costs", mean anything?

HP had low costs because they had cheap labor, where "competent" management is enshrined in FUD as a management technique. Most of the managers are frightened little children themselves, hence the childish knee-jerk reactions to normal ups and downs of life. The Parker bonus for on-time is a case in point. Any competent employee group would have run those in charge out on a rail a long time ago.

Really pathetic even trying to compare the two.

 

[PITbull]

While I would never wish what happened to airline employees on anyone, I want to know why it was okay to take my pension and the pilots' pensions when it is anathema to even discuss autoworkers' pensions.

Pilots skill and education DO mean something, and they should be compensated for it. They fall under the same group as doctors, who spend years in school with about forty years to make up for the 10 that they study and are paid peanuts. That's why their salaries are higher than most.

I don't have a problem with that. My pilot and my doctor----really like experience. It is a very small minded and blue collar mindset that views pilots as just big bus drivers.

Didn't we see that on the Hudson?

We were blindsided by some very clever money people who used a bankruptcy court like no one ever had before. Interesting that GM isn't doing the same thing, yet. No one could have forseen what Glass & Co were able to do to us and then it was just a cancer that spread. That it happened under a sympathetic anti-union republican administration is also no accident.


Kudos to Sully for staying out there and saying it.

I am so pleased that he was able to use his experience as a platform and present the plight of airline industry employees since post 9/11.
I am surprised that no one in Congress has brought it up. The pounding the industry employees took with no bail out or help fromCongress or interception. Mangement crushed us while in BK and so did the Judge.

Congress is now righting in legislation giving BK judges the authority to "modity" home loans to help assist owners to keep their homes.

But....NO HELP TO SAVE OUR PENSIONS, when we begged. AFA and IAM didn't terminate their own pensions; the judge in BK did.

ALPA on the other hand...DID.

 

[nycbusdriver]

But....NO HELP TO SAVE OUR PENSIONS, when we begged. AFA and IAM didn't terminate their own pensions; the judge in BK did.

ALPA on the other hand...DID.

How did that happen? The BK judge told the company and ALPA that the pilots' pension certainly needed to be terminated (based only on the company's argument and ALPA's deafening silence,) but that he as BK judge did not have the authority to terminate the plan himself.

How then did he find the authority to terminate the AFA and IAM plans?

 

[Glucose Intolerant]

How did that happen? The BK judge told the company and ALPA that the pilots' pension certainly needed to be terminated (based only on the company's argument and ALPA's deafening silence,) but that he as BK judge did not have the authority to terminate the plan himself.

How then did he find the authority to terminate the AFA and IAM plans?

Especially when all were funded or mostly funded....hrmm.

I would like to know the answer to that one as well? Looks like ALPA rolled over on the pilot group during the BK, LOA93, and then by looting the pension(s) but how did the F/As have their pension terminated? By Judge Mitchell? Also how did UAL get away with setting the precedent? Seems that UAL and U were the only two major carriers in recent history that felt inclined in sticking it to their employees (and both ALPA,IAM and AFA carriers except maybe back at EAL, CAL during the Lorenzo era). :angry:

 

[PITbull]

How did that happen? The BK judge told the company and ALPA that the pilots' pension certainly needed to be terminated (based only on the company's argument and ALPA's deafening silence,) but that he as BK judge did not have the authority to terminate the plan himself.

How then did he find the authority to terminate the AFA and IAM plans?

AFA ratified contract of 2004 was negotiated for a "freeze" on our pensions ratified on Jan 4, 2005. The company went and motioned to the courts for a termination, and on Jan 10th, 2005, the Virginia Judge terminated both AFA and IAM pension plans and they were than transferred to the PBGC. During the BK 2 hearings, the PBGC argued with the Judge that they could not handle both AFA and IAM pension plans as the PBGC was Billions in the red. But the judge terminated, despite arguments from the PBGC so that USAirways could emerge from bankruptcy. When they terminated our pensions, that was the last straw for me, and I put in for the VFLR and bid to leave U on the last leave Dec. 2 2005.

Three months after ratification of all labor agreements, later in May of 2005, USAirways was negotiating with America West for a merger. Nine months after ratification and on Sept. 9th, US Airways emerged from bankruptcy. In 2006, The new USAirways with Dave Parker at the helm was bidding on DL (who was in bk) to acquire them for 13 billion.

Where did they get all that cash??????? Ponder that? But congressional leaders along with DAL denied USAirways bid, and Doughead found himself with a DUI that night after heavy night drinking.

 

[john john]

Here is some CWA update archive on the bankruptcy and the court rejection of the contracts and pension


Management files to reject the contracts of passenger service, flight attendants, mechanics and ramp, and also files to terminate all pension plans...
11-13-04
30 minutes before meeting to receive a CWA proposal on Friday, management notified us that they have filed in bankruptcy court to reject our passenger service contract in its entirety, along with those of the flight attendants, rampers and mechanics. They also notified us that they are seeking to terminate our long-frozen pension plan, along with the pension plans of the flight attendants and the mechanics.
At the meeting Friday management could not explain how our frozen plan (which they now claim is $270 million underfunded) could have deteriorated when it was fully funded at the time it was frozen.
CWA will meet with actuaries for the plan to try to get to the bottom of that question.
We continue to present proposals to management to try to reach a fair settlement. At the same time, we have made it clear that we do not agree to management demands to eliminate res and contract the work out.
CWA Local Officers and Staff
Bankruptcy hearing will be on December 2... Negotiations momentum has been lost because of management contracting-out demands...
11-18-04
Management ‘s last proposal still has several extreme demands:
• Cut pay scales then move down 2 steps on the scale, then freeze at that level until November 2006.
• reduced at least two steps below your pay level when recalled from furlough.
• 5 Holidays
• Vacation weeks cut, but paid at 100%
• Shift premiums eliminated
• Double time eliminated
• Straight time pay for holidays worked
• Relocation allowance eliminated
• Sick days paid at 50% pay
• A new classification, Ready Reserve, can be scheduled like part-timers, but they are only paid at the first step ($8.72) forever.
• Retiree Medical is cut from a maximum of 10 years of coverage to a maximum of 3 years.
The extreme part of management’s demand is that, even after US Airways employees have our pay and benefits cut to below the average of the Low Cost Carriers (America West, Jet Blue, AirTran and Southwest), management would still contract out our jobs (res) or bring in underpaid Ready Reserves to take our work (airports).
We are still working on proposals this week. The Bankruptcy hearing will be on December 2, 3, 9, 10, 14, 16, and 17. The judge is on vacation from December 17 until January.

 

[john john]

http://web.archive.org/web/20041024044020/...t/PDFs/CWA1.pdf
Here is CWA argument against pay and benefits cuts in bankruptcy hearings

This case is about a union, the Communications Workers of America, AFL-CIO (“the
Unionâ€￾ or “CWAâ€￾), that is trying its level best to reach agreement with management on a
package of labor cost sacrifices that is comparable in all material respects to the cutbacks to
which other unionized workers on the property have agreed, and an airline that is making
inequitable and unnecessary demands, thereby frustrating the Union’s good faith efforts to close
a deal. CWA represents the lowest-paid unionized group at US Airways—approximately 6,000
passenger service employees—some of whom work in reservations centers and others of whom
are airport gate and ticket counter agents
As the expert report of Dr. Stanley Wisniewski explains, CWA Exhibit 4 at 4,
Paying people less for more productivity, as US [Airways] has proposed, stands
economic theory on its head. Generally, more productive employees are more
valuable to their employers. Some workers are more productive than others
because of greater general labor market experience or general training that they
have acquired. Furthermore, because more experienced employees have acquired
greater amounts of firm-specific training, they are generally more productive and,
therefore, valued more highly by the firm that has invested in their training.