Ste Mobile Aerospace , Strike-two !

[local 12 proud]

US Airways has some of the finest mechanics in the business and I do not believe any of them would sabotage an aircraft.

My point in this A320 maintenance outsourcing debate is two-fold.

Contract maintenance is not unsafe, is FAA certified, and in the case of US Airways, the QA is conducted by the airline.

In addition, my second point is the IAM and the Company should seek ways to cost effectively keep the work in-house. I have made this comment since day one of this debate and now that may occur, since US Airways and the IAM agreed last Friday to meet tomorrow to discuss union cost-savings ideas.

Nobody wants to see anybody lose their job, but the company must find ways to cut costs across-the-board or there will be no airline. Lets hope the parties find ways to cut costs tomorrow.

Respectfully,

USA320Pilot

usa320pilot, with no disrespect intended you should not make such a broad statement unless you have turned a wrench for a third party maintenance facility. i can tell you from experiance that the pencil whipping in these places is atrocious it's a true testament to the aircraft manufacturer's what a superb job they do in building in many fail safe measures, but its only a matter of time before a major catastrophic loss of aircraft and life occurs....mark my words!

 

[ITRADE]

Can US Airways survive a major crash?

Depends on what causes the crash.

US survived a lot of 'em in the mid '90s.

 

[delldude]

what do you call a major crash??
i'm sure the clt mishap qualifies.....

 

[ITRADE]

what do you call a major crash??
i'm sure the clt mishap qualifies.....

A maintenance related crash is certainly an issue of concern. A crash precipitated by a bomb or a hijacking would not be as fatal. Nor would a mid-air collision.

I'm not downplaying the horror created by crashes, but there is a perception that certain crashes are within the control of the company whereas others are not within the control of the company. Few, if any, place blame for what happened to AA 11 and UA 77 upon AA and UA, respectively.

 

[local 12 proud]

what do you call a major crash??
i'm sure the clt mishap qualifies.....

dell, you are absolutely correct any loss of aircraft or life due to poor maitenance is catastrophic, but it seems the only time the public or the fed's really stand up and take notice is when it impacts a "MAJOR" with huge loss of life, sad but true!

 

[bikingjw]

This is a MAJOR concern of mine about the whole outsourcing issue, stay with me for a moment on this one.
First of all I have been an aircraft mechanic for 28 years, 15 with U until I was laid off, so I do know from where I speak.
When I interviewed for the job, I was with another mechanic interviewing for employment. The interviewer asked us how we would go about a certain type of repair. The other mechanic said he could do it both ways. the interviewer asked, both ways?? He answered yep, I can do it fast, or I can do it right, your choice!! THAT IS THE CORE ISSUE IN MY OPINION!!!
When doing many repairs, it is easy to skip steps to kick the product out, and still make it look good, example, do you just use a twist drill for a close tolerance fastener installation or do you use a reamer for that needed close tolerance fit?? It makes a differance for the fasteners ability to be at its max strength!! One way is fast and one way is right... When inspecting parts such as bearings, many times it is a judgement call. If the wear is close to being out of limits what to do. That bearing might not be looked at again for a few years, but it is b***ch to chance and might hold up the flow of the plane in it's overhaul timeframe. If the time issue is brought into the equation, well you know the answer.
All aircraft have a certain amount of redundacy built into them for safty. Every time a step is passed, A questionable part is not replaced, that reduncy is reduced, maybe just a bit, but reduced none the less. How many small things passed over for the sake of time and cost, does it take for a major failure?? I don't know BUT I don't want to find out, do you???
Can I give you facts?? Probably not, just my years in the industry including years in overhaul of 737 and c checks of airbusses. After seeing first hand the corrosion found under the lavs if the busses during the cockpit door mods, and the delays in replacement parts from airbus, I have no doubt how mobil is handling some of the corrosion. Grind, prime and go!! Is it legal, mostly, enough metal remains to be within limits, but that part will then need to be replaced in 1 or 2 years in c-check taking a 2 day delay, instead of the next overhaul in 5 years. Save a dime, spend a dollar. Ask A O G it about getting parts from Airbus in a timely maner. And again that reduncy safty facter being compromised
On the surface, Mobil might be able, on paper, show they can do the overhaul cheaper than us according to some beancounters, but when you add up ALL the factors, all the time wasted repairing or replacing parts that should have been addresed in overhaul, the savings swings the other way.
Just my opinion , but I have no doubt about how its being done, I have been around the block to many times to have the wool pulled over my eyes on this one!!!

 

[AOG-N-IT]

As a simplistic example, let's say that an aircraft just came out of a check and returned to the line. Isn't it possible that after a couple of flights that a generator, a coffee maker or the weather radar could break? Perhaps a sensor went bad or a line ruptured.

That is as overly simplistic as one can make it....and hardly a good comparative example. Why not compare a fuse blowing on your car radio...to a brake system repair where the mechanic neglected to bleed the air bubbles out of the system before handing you the keys back.

Generators go out all the time....and it's not an issue that can't be overcome without anyone other than the flight deck occupants being aware that it has happened. We do not declare emergency landings for such....nor is it a major safety of flight concern.

A coffee maker? Oh please !! When is a PCI (Passenger Convienience Item) ever part of the same arena as a mis-rigged flight control surface. Coffee makers take a dirt nap everday in this business. I wish I had a nickle for everyone that has expired in this industry during thre last 5 years , I would be on easy street by now. The only thing a coffee maker can do is possibly produce a tad of smoke when the plug fizzles out. No biggee.....un-plug it and move on. You cannot say the same of a mis-rigged sloppy job on any flight control surface. Twice it's been flaps at the hands of our less than esteemed outsource provider...what's next? A mis-rigged Rudder or Aileron? Maybe a faulty job on a nose landing gear like the UA 319 will get some attention too?

Weather Radar ?....happens all the time , like any CRT , they just go...and lets not forget the havoc a lightning strike plays with this system. Honestly...I can't recall a time where we haven't had a plane out of service at one point or another for either post lightning strike inspections or in some cases lengthy repairs. I know of two within our system alone within the week. Winter is no less prone to this happening than spring or summer BTW.

Sensors and lines go bad all the time....not much you can do other than Ops checking the systems....and inspecting the lines for signs of leaks and chaffing. again...this hardly equals to oversight and hap-hazard approach taking place when rigging a major flight control surface.

By and large....every example posed , was not a safety of flight concern , or something that in most all cases couldn't be MEL'd or repaired on a gate. Rigging flight control surfaces is 180 degrees the opposite.


The question was also asked about U surviving a crash. The examples of what took place on 9-11-01 not withstanding...U would be doomed if a crash were to take place and even the speculation of negligent maintenance were involved.

The Air MidWest crash in CLT with just the USAirways name being linked to it was bad enough...we do not need to be exposing ourselves to anything that even hints at being 2nd best at this point , clearly STE Mobile Aerospace is a 2nd or 3rd place runner in this ordeal. 0 for 2 on our A319's alone doesn't speak well , unless your standards of acceptable are only gauged by modest and questionable cost savings on a spread sheet?

 

[local 12 proud]

bikingjw, first my condolences for your loss as a mechanic at U after 15 years as what im sure was your life goal as was mine to work for a major airline. i have only 20 years as a mechanic in the aviation industry, but the first 8 were spent working at 2 third party chop shops and then continental before being hired at A.A. i have seen alot in my short 20 year stint but i can assure you the worst was at third party, i was at continental when they purchased PEOPLES EXPRESS who was maintained by one of those chop shops prior to the buy out. one aircraft to this day still stands out as the worst ive ever seen, it was a 727 in for a heavy and i was assigned to the aft cargo for structure work after removing gill liner and "blue" insulation we found the most corossion ive ever seen on one aircraft you could litterally stick a srew driver thru numerous ribs and stringer's that had been redused to exfoliated powder after three months the aircraft was put back into service, but i remember my crew chief saying" remember that tail number, dont let your family onboard" yea your right as the guy you interviewd with stated, "i can do it fast, or i can do it right" in the end you get what you pay for! just my .02cents!.....................thanks

 

[Winglet]

GOOD

FAST

CHEAP

Pick 2.

 

[cavalier]

in the end you get what you pay for! just my .02cents!.....................thanks

Well that statement stands true most to the time except when you look at what Dave Siegel is getting, MILLIONS and we sure in hell didn't get what we all paid dearly for in that instance! :down:

 

[MrAeroMan]

I have a question. How many mechanics will be called back to work if the checks are done inhouse?


Reply by aerosmith

Posted: Mar 10 2004, 01:20 AM


Approxiamately 100.

So there are potentially 100 IAM mechanics out on the street as we speak that could benefit from the company doing the heavy checks in house correct?

What do you think these people are doing? I can tell you what 2 of them are doing. One of them that I know has started a lawn care business. He's working his arse off with a rake, lawnmower, trimmer, edger you name it. He hates it and isn't even making 1/4th. of the salary he made at U. He can't find a job that's decent enough to take without asking if they want fries with that. (His words, not mine) The other guy is my brother-in-law. He just had to sell his house, sold his new truck, sold his boat, harley is gone and his daughter doesn't know if she can go back to college next semester. Last time I talked to him he was debating about going to work for a contract place like TIMCO. It seems to me guys like that would jump at the chance for the IAM to cut a deal with the company and get them back to work on U jets even if it was for less money per hour.
I still think if you got some of the affected IAM people out there with some management people from CCY you could offer to provide maint. service to other airlines. The business is there. You just have to get out and beat the bushes. Let them know you want to do it and give them a fair price. If anything else you could use the experience factor as a value added item.

 

[MarkMyWords]

AOG -

I think you missed my point. I was not comparing a flap riggingproblem to a broken coffee maker, but what I was trying to get across is that before we know that the issue with the airplane was a issue of rigging, it could have been several different causes. Through the process of trouble shooting it was determined that it was an issue of incorrect flap rigging. What if it had been an issue with a sensor gone bad? Jumping to the automatic conclusion that it was an issue with STS from the very begining closed off the possibility that it could have been anything else.

Using A/C 767 as an example, should we have automatically assumed that since the airplane just came out of check that the problem was associated with something done on the check, or should we have looked at the problem, independently of the check to determine the cause. In this case it was the failure of the HMU - not directly related to the check done on the aircraft prior to departure.

My point was to not jump to conclusions and wait for all the facts. You now have the facts, the conclusion is the same - it is an issue with the process of rigging the flaps at STS.

 

[sentrido]

Does anybody know when the arbitration hearing will take place?

 

[MarkMyWords]

Approxiamately 100.

I asked this same question last year during a discussion and was told by some of the union hard-liners that it would take about 600 mechanics to open 2-3 tracks to do the S check in house.

 

[cavalier]

I have a question. How many mechanics will be called back to work if the checks are done inhouse?


Reply by aerosmith

Posted: Mar 10 2004, 01:20 AM


Approxiamately 100.

So there are potentially 100 IAM mechanics out on the street as we speak that could benefit from the company doing the heavy checks in house correct?

What do you think these people are doing? I can tell you what 2 of them are doing. One of them that I know has started a lawn care business. He's working his arse off with a rake, lawnmower, trimmer, edger you name it. He hates it and isn't even making 1/4th. of the salary he made at U. He can't find a job that's decent enough to take without asking if they want fries with that. (His words, not mine) The other guy is my brother-in-law. He just had to sell his house, sold his new truck, sold his boat, harley is gone and his daughter doesn't know if she can go back to college next semester. Last time I talked to him he was debating about going to work for a contract place like TIMCO. It seems to me guys like that would jump at the chance for the IAM to cut a deal with the company and get them back to work on U jets even if it was for less money per hour.
I still think if you got some of the affected IAM people out there with some management people from CCY you could offer to provide maint. service to other airlines. The business is there. You just have to get out and beat the bushes. Let them know you want to do it and give them a fair price. If anything else you could use the experience factor as a value added item.

With the recent wave of mechanics hitting the streets in the next week or two in Pit, bringing the airbus in house would almost be a wash, only adding a few jobs.

Getting this crew to bring in 3rd party work is a joke because that is the very last thing they want. We have been trying to get 3rd party work in house way before the Dave and Jerry show made their debut and it's never happened. All that has happened is more work vanishes while the MRO's grow and grow with low wage employees. Welcome to the new corporate America where one needs an college degree to make ends meet and a PHD to get ahead, or you can be a Rush ditto head and have your own business while singing the republicans praises daily of I love you.