Station Closings????

[Busdrvr]

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On 10/21/2002 1:24:11 PM UAL777flyer wrote:

Negative. The individual UAX airlines are paying for the specific RJ's they ordered. UAL is not paying for these RJ's.
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Paying for the RJ's is not hard to do when you're getting paid per departure. Our Partners make a profit if the jet is full or empty. Although there are some economic incentives to be on time, are there for being friendly? it seems if a UAX flight is overbooked, they don't start with a $200 or $300 dollar voucher, they go IMMEDIATELY to the big guns, like free RT anywhere UAL flies. After all, their airline isn't paying for it

 

[Busdrvr]

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On 10/21/2002 2:07:57 PM UAL777flyer wrote:

Well, when you consider that we control their inventory, I guess you could say that's only fair.
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Yes, BUT, it would be nice if they at least TRIED to do things that would be beneft. to our bottom line. They may not realize it, but thier future depends on us. I'm sure a BK judge would see the profit they are making excessive given the current revenue enviroment. BTW, since UAL OWNS all those seats, why do UAX non-rev folks get boarding priority on those flights?

 

[UAL777flyer]

Well, when you consider that we control their inventory, I guess you could say that's only fair.

 

[UAL777flyer]

Busdrvr,

I am in complete agreement with you, especially on the non-rev policy, which has been a bone of contention for a long time.

 

[UA777DEN]

I hear DEN-MFR is going to be announced. It's about time....

 

[N230UA]

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On 10/21/2002 2:13:42 PM Busdrvr wrote:

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On 10/21/2002 2:07:57 PM UAL777flyer wrote:

Well, when you consider that we control their inventory, I guess you could say that's only fair.
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[/blockquote]

Yes, BUT, it would be nice if they at least TRIED to do things that would be beneft. to our bottom line. They may not realize it, but thier future depends on us. I'm sure a BK judge would see the profit they are making "excessive" given the current revenue enviroment. BTW, since UAL "OWNS" all those seats, why do UAX non-rev folks get boarding priority on those flights?
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Well, UAL is only making NRSA benefits reciprocal. UAX employees are BP8C with *same day seniority*. This means buddy passes go ahead of UAX Write-Your-Owns, which seems unfair to me. After all, these buddy passes are not contributing to the bottom line of the company. Despite the fact that UAX employees are from different companies, they still do more for United than buddy passes. And when you figure that it there is a very small percentage of UAX employees out of the NRSA pax on a given flight (paling in comparison to buddy pass travelers), granting UAX employees a BP higher than buddy passes wouldn't affect buddy passes much, but be much more fair to UAX employees. And then the same could be done for NRSA mainline traveling on UAX.

 

[Busdrvr]

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On 10/21/2002 5:29:36 PM N230UA wrote:

This means buddy passes go ahead of UAX Write-Your-Owns, which seems unfair to me. After all, these buddy passes are not contributing to the bottom line of the company. Despite the fact that UAX employees are from different companies, they still do more for United than buddy passes.
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Ah, Buddy Passes are NOT FREE! I've seen cases where they cost about the same as a normal ticket. So the truth is, buddy passes DO add to the bottom line

 

[N230UA]

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On 10/21/2002 5:39:37 PM Busdrvr wrote:

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On 10/21/2002 5:29:36 PM N230UA wrote:

This means buddy passes go ahead of UAX Write-Your-Owns, which seems unfair to me. After all, these buddy passes are not contributing to the bottom line of the company. Despite the fact that UAX employees are from different companies, they still do more for United than buddy passes.
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Ah, "Buddy Passes" are NOT FREE! I've seen cases where they cost about the same as a normal ticket. So the truth is, buddy passes DO add to the bottom line
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Never said they were. But fine then. Have it your way with the status quo.

 

[GGpillow]

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On 10/21/2002 1:33:17 PM Busdrvr wrote:

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On 10/21/2002 1:24:11 PM UAL777flyer wrote:

Negative. The individual UAX airlines are paying for the specific RJ's they ordered. UAL is not paying for these RJ's.
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[/blockquote]


Paying for the RJ's is not hard to do when you're getting paid "per departure". Our Partners make a profit if the jet is full or empty. Although there are some economic incentives to be on time, are there for being friendly? it seems if a UAX flight is overbooked, they don't start with a $200 or $300 dollar voucher, they go IMMEDIATELY to the "big guns", like free RT anywhere UAL flies. After all, their airline isn't paying for it
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BUS, I agree with your general viewpoint, but to clarify this issue, as to hauling out the big guns..... bah. UAX offers the free tkt voucher cuz we tell em to. Mainline offers the same thing now. We are specifically instructed not to offer 100-200 dollar vouchers. (INTL flts excepted) I believe their is less use of said free tkt vouchers then the cash ones we used to give out, thus saving us money.

 

[Farley]

When a flight is oversold there is always an offer of a voucher. I've never heard anyone offer a free RT on UAL as the first offer.

Someone would like boarding priority over UEX employees on UEX aircraft? Nice try! I realize you control the seats, but try to be realistic.

 

[Oliver Stone''s Apprentice]

If you want boarding priority, buy your regionals. AA and Eagle employees have equal boarding priority regardless of the metal (jumpseats excepted).

 

[Busdrvr]

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On 10/22/2002 7:54:58 AM Farley wrote:

When a flight is oversold there is always an offer of a voucher. I've never heard anyone offer a free RT on UAL as the first offer.

Then trot on down to the F concourse in ORD and sit around for about 5 min. You'll hear it

Someone would like boarding priority over UEX employees on UEX aircraft? Nice try! I realize you control the seats, but try to be realistic.

Realistic? UAL has bought and paid for EVERY seat on that jet. EVERY ONE! Who should have first dibs on an empty one? The folks from the company who BOUGHT THE SEAT? All UAX flights are basically UAL charters.


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[Busdrvr]

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On 10/22/2002 1005 AM eolesen wrote:

If you want boarding priority, buy your regionals. AA and Eagle employees have equal boarding priority regardless of the metal (jumpseats excepted).
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We did, the flight attendants wouldn't let us keep them. Too bad we can't sell off part of Air willy today for much needed cash (like NWA and CAL).

 

[Taipan]

I could care less about the NRSA boarding priority factor ,but if what you are saying is true I have a real problem with us buying all seats systemwide on the UAX carriers.Here would be my questions about this
1.How profitable have these carriers been over the last 3 years or 12 quarters?
2.If there profits beats the industry average (being small carriers) as of this day 22OCT02 we should be renegotiating this little idea about us purchasing all the seats all the time
3.If we were smart we would be changing all remaining A320/319 orders to A318s and slowly start taking back all are cities that are borderline mainline of course you guys (ALPA) would have to lower your payscale big time for that aircraft, but I expect all of us to be lower sooner than later.
4.How many RJs are on order at these carriers ?
5.What is the longest range of an RJ on a current UAX flight I know they are flying them Den-Aus and thats over 700 miles?

 

[ualdriver]

Taipan-

1) Atlantic Coast Airlines (ACA), one of our large feeder airlines growing like gangbusters while we continue to pull out of cities and shrink, made about a 6.3% to 8.4% (roughly) margin according to a recent quarterly report. That may have changed with the recent cost cutting, but obviously we are paying them their costs plus that above mentioned margin. It's also interesting to note that Atlantic Coast Airline's CSM's (cost per seat mile) are higher than that of United's average CSM. ACA = 15.5 cents per seat mile, UAL = a little over 11 cents per seat mile. Maybe someone can tell me what they think UAL's short leg CSM is as I'm curious as to how it compares to ACA! I bet you after all these paycuts and cost cutting, it may not be that much higher.

2) I think (correct me if I'm wrong) that since we're paying for these little RJ's buzzing around, if they're full that's to our benefit, at least from a financial standpoint?

3) You're assuming that the A318 could do it profitably. What are the operating costs of an A318 vs. an RJ? Remember, Express mechanics, flight attendants, CSR's, pilots, management, etc. make a fraction of what we do. They don't get high hourly rates, their company isn't funding their retirement, and I imagine their productivity is generally higher, although I don't know that for fact. And that's just considering labor and management costs, never mind other aspects of the business.

4) Too many! And the IAM nor the AFA has done nothing to limit their growth! You guys are losing jobs to due to the RJ, too.

5) Their range is obviously adequate for now and as the aircraft and their engines mature, range and payload capacity will only increase! You should see the 100 seat RJ's (and I put RJ's in quotes because that's what they call them- 100 seat regional jets that can hold almost as much as our 737's!) that Embraer has in the pipe. The RJ issue is certainly going to get more interesting as they grow in size and range.