There is always one other option ... UAL reaffirms the existing ACA contract. That would put an end to all of this posturing yet would leave UAL with costs higher than it wants. I guess it depends what its backup plans really are (if they exist) and how much it wants to keep the IAD hub.
Ual Scraps Deal With Mesa Air
- Thread starter Cosmo
- Start date
usfliboi
Veteran
- Aug 20, 2002
- 2,070
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Light years thanks for the insult. I onder what took you so long... I post my thought s on here just like you. The difference i say something thought out or speak my mind in a way about the company that i try to be constructive.,. and you? I have every right to post just like you you dont like my ramblings dont read them. Btw when did i complain about chip?Light Years said:
I have a feeling that was supposed to be directed to me and not to "Fly."Light Years said:
When I brought this up on another thread, I remember seeing lots of reasons why U employees do not like the idea, but none that made an effective case that it was legally or financially impossible (at least to the extent that could not be cured by a few tweaks to any contracts) for MDA to become the UAX carrier out of IAD.
Does the idea "defy logic" at the moment? Perhaps. But have you not learned to expect the unexpected in this business, especially these days? Sure I would be the first to admit (as I did on the other thread) that this idea most likely will NOT come to fruition, but it is an idea that seems at least theoretically possible and would resolve several problems for several parties (U, UA, ACAA).
The fact is U's business plan is about to undergo some radical changes in the coming weeks and months and "everything is on the table," to quote your own CEO.
Because "this particular type of aircraft ... works well for US" means it will NOT work well for UA? How so?
"After all we are codeshare partners." Exactly. So since the U/UA marketing relationship is already established it should not be an unsurmountable obstacle to expand it in this way.
"Let our own airline fall by the wayside, lets pour our time, money, employees, and resources into our codeshare partners competing hub for no reason." I hate to break it to you, but PIT's days as a major U hub seem to be numbered. So are PHL's, once WN gears up. Not thinking of ways to adapt would be letting jobs die "for no reason."
"...70 seat aircraft on routes formerly served for UA by props and RJs..." can easily be solved by having another UAX carrier come in and take care of those routes. Or let them fade out altogether. The consolidation that is coming in the industry will lead to smaller cities losing service anyways sooner or later (remember Lancaster, PA?).
"Hope the unions and the DOJ dont have a problem with a division of an airline pretending to be an Express carrier for someone else!" Seems like Dave & Dave haven't had any problems getting things from the U unions so far, so I wouldn't expect this to be an obstacle either. And if it is, is there anything to stop D&D from spinning MDA off from USAir Group and making it an independent entity? And why would the DoJ care if CHO-IAD with a UA flight # is operated by MDA as opposed to ACA?
"You guys are just as bad as Chip, posting utter nonsense that has no basis in logic whatsoever." Ummm, hell-OOOO, this is an internet discussion board! This is the exact place to be posting thought-provoking ideas and discussing them! Just remember to take them for what they are worth. The only time to get suspicious is when someone starts posting that what they say is the truth and everyone else is wrong and just you wait and see, his secret sources tell him he is right and anyone who dares disagree is shooting the messenger.
"... because a UAL F/A says so! ... We should ask flight attendants for advice more often." It seems that the heart of your complaint about my opinion is that I am a lowly F/A so how DARE I have an intelligent thought about something besides the color of the aircraft interior. Unfortunately for you, this speaks volumes about you and your opinions and biases. It would probably be quite a shock for you to see my resume and know about my education and background.
Boeing Boy and N628AU:
I have to agree... ACA's low-cost plan will be very difficult with a high CASM aircraft... even with a rolling hub and high utilization. Also, their primary market, North/South along the East coast, tends to be rather seasonal. And the last thing US Airways needs, is more yield pressure.
Although, given that US Airways and United are now partners, I can see a scenario where within the perimeter rule traffic is concentrated on USAirways at DCA, and beyond perimeter, int'l, and a some flights for connecting traffic/high density destinations are flown from IAD, thus reducing UAL's need for feed.
I have to agree... ACA's low-cost plan will be very difficult with a high CASM aircraft... even with a rolling hub and high utilization. Also, their primary market, North/South along the East coast, tends to be rather seasonal. And the last thing US Airways needs, is more yield pressure.
Although, given that US Airways and United are now partners, I can see a scenario where within the perimeter rule traffic is concentrated on USAirways at DCA, and beyond perimeter, int'l, and a some flights for connecting traffic/high density destinations are flown from IAD, thus reducing UAL's need for feed.
BoeingBoy wrote:
" There's one thing that nobody mentioned
ACA controls the gates it uses in IAD, so any replacement will have to either use somebody's mainline
gates or bus the passengers to the plane. Not insurmountable, but not the best solution.
Jim "
One other aspect here is that ACA appears to want to go to Airbus aircraft. Will the "Express Gates" be usable on a one for one basis with an Airbus? If not, what will be the cost to convert the gates to Airbus gates and when done, just how many gates will ACA control at IAD?
" There's one thing that nobody mentioned
ACA controls the gates it uses in IAD, so any replacement will have to either use somebody's mainline
gates or bus the passengers to the plane. Not insurmountable, but not the best solution.
Jim "
One other aspect here is that ACA appears to want to go to Airbus aircraft. Will the "Express Gates" be usable on a one for one basis with an Airbus? If not, what will be the cost to convert the gates to Airbus gates and when done, just how many gates will ACA control at IAD?
IIRC ground-breraking was imminent on a new IAD terminal to accomodate UA when 9/11 happened. It would still take $$$ to make it a reality I supposed but at least there is the space at IAD and all the approval / planning / etc. had been done, so I doubt it would be too hard to dust off those plans and put them in place.BoeingBoy said:
I agree with those who are saying that ACA's plans to go "Independent" are suicidal.
My gut feeling is that it was very wise of UAL to walk away from the MESA deal. With the MESA/ACA deal in the courts; the time frame involved would not have been appropriate. There is always more than one way to accomplish a goal. (I also see where MESA has withdrawn its bid for ACA.)
BoeingBoy
Veteran
- Nov 9, 2003
- 16,512
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- Banned
- #24
UAL06,
Of course you are right about the ACA gates and the Airbus. From the UAL perspective I think everything will work out - just saw the Nov numbers and they looked good.
For us at U, the ACA independence will be rough (for however long ACA lasts). Their VP Planning recently said that 93% of their routes would compete head to head with U. As if we weren't sinking fast enough already (unless Chip's UDT, ICT, IUD, or whatever materializes!!!)
Good luck to you folks.
Jim
Of course you are right about the ACA gates and the Airbus. From the UAL perspective I think everything will work out - just saw the Nov numbers and they looked good.
For us at U, the ACA independence will be rough (for however long ACA lasts). Their VP Planning recently said that 93% of their routes would compete head to head with U. As if we weren't sinking fast enough already (unless Chip's UDT, ICT, IUD, or whatever materializes!!!)
Good luck to you folks.
Jim
I seem to recall reading that ACA has eight jetway gates either leased or arrangements to lease them on B Concourse very near the "Express" gates of their A Concourse.ual06 said:
On the potential for UAL build-out: IAD does have that very nice advantage... easy to build new and/or temporary concourses with the mobile lounge system. And to think that the mobile lounge system was highly criticized when built... they wanted to immediately dig a tunnel when Presidential put in the first midfield concourse... Now of course, I would argue that the mobile lounges allow much faster/easier construction of new facilities, and therefore meet demand. (A tunnel/train concourse connector similar to ATL is still a long term necessity.)
Lastly, on a very different topic, it seems to me that Orenstein and/or Mesa gave up on this rather quickly... I guess I expected a longer more drawn out fight... I was under the impression that IAD would go to Mesa regardless of ACA. If Mesa acquired ACA, they instantly had the aircraft/facilities/etc. If Mesa did not acquire ACA, they would need more time to order more aircraft, acquire facilities, and generally do more "legwork" to get an IAD operation up and running. Perhaps I read the situation incorrectly.
Pal, your company is trying to cut UAL and UAIR's throats.46Driver said:
If you're looking for warm holiday thoughts, watch 'It's a Wonderful Life.' Don't ask for or expect warm thoughts from me toward your company when it is intending on stealing traditional UAIR and UAL passengers.
Save the guilt trip for someone gullible enough to fall for that tripe.
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