Speaking Of Bob Crandall ..........

[eolesen]

No, it would not be cataclysmic by any stretch of the imagination. This is nothing like WN/HP in PHX/LAS.

[post="248486"][/post]​

Gotta side with Michael here. There'd be some short-term pain in a few places if Wright were overturned, but it would be manageable.

Sort of reminds me of all the hand-wringing over deregulation, the hand-wringing over 100% bag screening, and the hand-wringing over Y2K.

Lots of anxiety (and money) wasted on less-than-cataclysmic events....

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

Gotta side with Michael here. There'd be some short-term pain in a few places if Wright were overturned, but it would be manageable.

Sort of reminds me of all the hand-wringing over deregulation, the hand-wringing over 100% bag screening, and the hand-wringing over Y2K.

Lots of anxiety (and money) wasted on less-than-cataclysmic events....

[post="248614"][/post]​

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Well, I'm not so proud, that I can't yield to to "E", and Mike, on a few points here, but I stand on my "opinion" that the Texas politicos won't let the "WA" be overturned !!!!!!!!!!!

??????

NH/BB's

 

[eolesen]

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Well, I'm not so proud, that I can't yield to to "E", and Mike, on a few points here, but I stand on my "opinion" that the Texas politicos won't let the "WA" be overturned !!!!!!!!!!!

??????

NH/BB's

[post="248662"][/post]​

On that you're probably wright -- the Texas delegation will probably be aligned towards keeping the status quo. The nagging question remains whether or not there's still enough support from the rest of Congress to keep the status quo.

Personally, I think all forms of perimeter rules need to be abolished. That includes Wright, LGA, and DCA. I also think that restrictions which prohibit commercial service from Centennial in Denver and Peachtree in Atlanta need to be overturned, as do local slot controls at SNA and LGB.

 

[mweiss]

On that you're probably wright

the Texas delegation will probably be aligned towards keeping the status quo. The nagging question remains whether or not there's still enough support from the rest of Congress to keep the status quo.

I concur.

Personally, I think all forms of perimeter rules need to be abolished.

I agree with this, too, with a couple of minor caveats. In particular, you are opposed to restrictions on commercial service. Removal of these restrictions has a significant negative impact on the real estate along the nearby flight path. It's an unexpected change. Such a change shouldn't go down without a fight. I view this as very different from those who buy near a commercial airport and complain when they extend the runway by ten feet.

 

[mrman]

If one makes the assumption that WN will fly outside Wright one way or another from DFW or DAL, I would think AA might want to change their position on DAL. Wouldn't AA rather have WN at DAL, limited to 30 gates of which some are at the Legend terminal, than WN at DFW taking gatespace that while empty gives AA more negotiating power with DFW for rent. DFW flights not arriving early due to waiting for a gate is a sign that AA will be needing more space. Sure would be a lot easier dealing with these issues with WN out of DFW. Also wouldn't AA like to keep WN out of DFW just due to traffic issues

 

[jimntx]

Also wouldn't AA like to keep WN out of DFW just due to traffic issues

[post="248709"][/post]​

If you mean takeoffs and landings, no. Remember a LARGE tenant just moved out. AA has more problems with getting a/c to gates on time. Tuesday evening--not a big travel day--we arrived from STL 20 minutes early. We then had to wait 35 minutes for a gate. 02JAN I worked a 32 minute flight from SAT to DFW. Waited over 1 hour for a gate.

This is happening with alarming frequency at DFW. As more people miss connections, they will start booking away where possible.

Back to subject: NHBB started by envisioning AA doing INTL and long-haul heavy (by definition, you can't really do a transcon from the middle of the continent) from DFW and WN doing all domestic from DAL.

Two problems...
1. Forget the Wright Amendment, DAL is not capable of handling the volume of traffic that DFW handles. And, don't think for one minute that the simple folk of Highland Park would stand for that much additional noise and traffic that close to them.
2. The reason DFW exists as an International flight station is a little thing called connecting passengers. AA domestic and AE funnel passengers to those INTL flights. Same relationship with CLT and USAIR, or IAH and CO. CLT, DFW, and Houston areas do not, of themselves, generate enough International O&D to justify the current level of INTL flying each enjoys. And, that's fine.
BUT...
Just try telling a passenger that he/she is going to fly into DAL, get on a bus, and ride 20 miles to DFW to continue their journey to Europe/Asia/South America, and we are going to "try" to get their luggage on that same bus and connecting flight. I think you will lose the sale to someone who flies into JFK or LAX or MIA.

And, don't even think that some sort of light rail system would solve the problem. As good as the light rail system is here in Dallas, the squabble over the routing and method of payment for an extension just to DAL from downtown has yet to be solved. Forget the "future" extension to DFW.

 

[mrman]

If you mean takeoffs and landings, no. Remember a LARGE tenant just moved out.

My point is AA would not want WN to take those gates. They would rather have them empty for expansion due your comment below or to keep them empty to help them get lower lease from DFW

AA has more problems with getting a/c to gates on time. Tuesday evening--not a big travel day--we arrived from STL 20 minutes early. We then had to wait 35 minutes for a gate. 02JAN I worked a 32 minute flight from SAT to DFW. Waited over 1 hour for a gate.

Jim, this is so correct. You can hear the laughing when AA arrives early because now even the passengers know they won't be at the gate early. Again AA should want to keep WN at Love even without Wright to keep access to empty gates

Back to subject: NHBB started by envisioning AA doing INTL and long-haul heavy (by definition, you can't really do a transcon from the middle of the continent) from DFW and WN doing all domestic from DAL.

Two problems...
1. Forget the Wright Amendment, DAL is not capable of handling the volume of traffic that DFW handles. And, don't think for one minute that the simple folk of Highland Park would stand for that much additional noise and traffic that close to them.
2. The reason DFW exists as an International flight station is a little thing called connecting passengers. AA domestic and AE funnel passengers to those INTL flights. Same relationship with CLT and USAIR, or IAH and CO. CLT, DFW, and Houston areas do not, of themselves, generate enough International O&D to justify the current level of INTL flying each enjoys. And, that's fine.
BUT...
Just try telling a passenger that he/she is going to fly into DAL, get on a bus, and ride 20 miles to DFW to continue their journey to Europe/Asia/South America, and we are going to "try" to get their luggage on that same bus and connecting flight. I think you will lose the sale to someone who flies into JFK or LAX or MIA.

And, don't even think that some sort of light rail system would solve the problem. As good as the light rail system is here in Dallas, the squabble over the routing and method of payment for an extension just to DAL from downtown has yet to be solved. Forget the "future" extension to DFW.

[post="248731"][/post]​

There are about 30 gates at DAL with the master plan. Of those about 6 are at the Legend terminal. Flights will be limited no matter where the flights go. A plane to AMA is just as loud as a plane to LAX. I would even argue that WN737 are a lot quieter than RJ's CO flys out of DAL.

On connecting traffic I agree with you Jim one would not want to change airports, however AA currently sells many connection from LGA to JFK on international. If one books a DFW-Europe AAdvantage ticket often the only flights available are LGA/JFK connections

Finally AA could possibly still charge more on competing flights from DFW as AA does today with competing WN flights at Chicago(ORDvsMDW), and Houston (IAHvsHOU)

 

[jimntx]

My point is AA would not want WN to take those gates. They would rather have them empty for expansion due your comment below or to keep them empty to help them get lower lease from DFW

WN has already stated publicly that they have no interest in DFW.

There are about 30 gates at DAL with the master plan. Of those about 6 are at the Legend terminal. Flights will be limited no matter where the flights go. A plane to AMA is just as loud as a plane to LAX. I would even argue that WN737 are a lot quieter than RJ's CO flys out of DAL.

On connecting traffic I agree with you Jim one would not want to change airports, however AA currently sells many connection from LGA to JFK on international. If one books a DFW-Europe AAdvantage ticket often the only flights available are LGA/JFK connections

Finally AA could possibly still charge more on competing flights from DFW as AA does today with competing WN flights at Chicago(ORDvsMDW), and Houston (IAHvsHOU)

[post="248842"][/post]​

NHBB's original premise was that AA and WN would merge and there would be no competing flights. AA would do strictly International and long-haul heavy from DFW and WN would handle the rest of domestic from DAL.

Even with all 30 gates, WN could not replace AA and AE current domestic traffic from DFW with increased flying from DAL.

The reason there are no AAdvantage tickets to JFK is because all the revenue passengers connecting to Europe have no desire to fly into LGA then transfer to JFK. And, I would guess that an LGA-JFK transfer might even be easier than a DAL-DFW transfer during rush hour. Hwy 183 to DFW is inadequate for local traffic most of the time, and since it goes right by Texas Stadium you would have that additional backup during football season.

 

[buhbye]

Not so sure on that. Things change daily. Bear might have something there.

UA and US were losers. WN and maybe AA is a winning combination.

[post="247920"][/post]​

I think with the Bush administration anything is possible for corperate America.

 

[goingboeing]

I think with the Bush administration anything is possible for corperate America.

[post="253281"][/post]​

Yeah, all the problems of the airlines are the fault of the Bush adminstration.

 

[Wretched Wrench]

Yeah, all the problems of the airlines are the fault of the Bush adminstration.

[post="253327"][/post]​

C'mon, now. He said "anything is possible".

How did you make the leap to "Yeah, all the problems of the airlines are the fault of the Bush adminstration"?

.