Piney, is this the 'report' you were referring to?
http://www.sptimes.com/2003/06/02/Business...bunk_the_.shtml
http://www.sptimes.com/2003/06/02/Business...bunk_the_.shtml
Southwest Pit Flights
- Thread starter Justair
- Start date
RowUnderDCA
Veteran
- Oct 6, 2002
- 2,123
- 1
I dont trust SP Times to avoid poorly researched stories that generate surprising or inflammatory headlines.
goingboeing
Veteran
- Jan 30, 2004
- 584
- 1
USA320Pilot said:
Hey,pass us some rose colored glasses so we can see the light! Wage concessions will not save USAir and all they do is put a band-aid on a wound that is hemorraging.Having a succesful business model and increasing producivity is needed to fix the Legacy carriers and that includes AA.
You are dreaming about profit sharing checks because all concessions have done at the legacy carriers is REDUCE the amount of LOSSES on the bottom line.AA got 1.8 billion in concessions in 2003 and still lost 3/4 of a billion dollars last year.The legacy carriers are not profitable because they are overcompensating the employees,it is because they refuse to make the necessary changes to their current operating structure and management is protecting their many individual empires.
Travelpro72
Veteran
- Jan 30, 2005
- 4,964
- 455
goingboeing said:
It seems that there is a battle between Low Cost Carriers and Low Pay Carriers.
SWA has the lowest costs but pays the best. Why would workers want to fight this?
Should working people fight hard to make less? Is that a victory?
Let the LCCs kick the crap out of the LPCs I say. Better to start over than compete to see how low you can go.
SWA has the lowest costs but pays the best. Why would workers want to fight this?
Should working people fight hard to make less? Is that a victory?
Let the LCCs kick the crap out of the LPCs I say. Better to start over than compete to see how low you can go.
goingboeing
Veteran
- Jan 30, 2004
- 584
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Bob Owens said:
I hope that SWA,Air Tran,and Jet Blue stomp the legacy carriers into the dirt.The legacy carriers are bunch of "has beens" who refuse to make the necessary changes to operate profitably into today's airline market.
The legacy carriers management is good for ONE thing: LOSE OTHER PEOPLE'S MONEY.
The point is not that Southwest always offers the lowest fare, since it's clear that they are often beaten by other airlines subject to availability, government fees for connections/segments, etc. The real point is that Southwest always offers a reasonable fare on its routes; as a passenger, you know that when you book on Southwest, you're not going to get gouged, even at the last minute. Southwest is customer-friendly, as well. They don't try to extort huge premiums for folks trying to purchase one-way tickets, and they don't care about back-to-back or throwaway ticketing, either. If you need to change or cancel a non-refundable ticket, there's no charge aside from the fare difference. They don't charge you to buy your ticket from a human being over the phone or at the airport.
Doesn't it say something that Southwest's highest fare between PIT-PHL is significantly less than US Airways' lowest fare prior to May 4? Southwest's biggest competitive advantage is their reasonably-priced walkup fares. $79 walkup between PIT and PHL or PIT and MDW is very fair. Southwest makes money hand-over-fist with fares at those levels.
Doesn't it say something that Southwest's highest fare between PIT-PHL is significantly less than US Airways' lowest fare prior to May 4? Southwest's biggest competitive advantage is their reasonably-priced walkup fares. $79 walkup between PIT and PHL or PIT and MDW is very fair. Southwest makes money hand-over-fist with fares at those levels.
Whatnow? said:
Your story in no way contradicts sfb's point, which is most certainly TRUE. WN never gouges. It isn't always the cheapest option, but everyone in America (except maybe employees of dying legacy airlines) knows that its fares are always reasonable.
Your experience only proves that the dying legacy airlines were so desperate for cash that they were still selling more heavily discounted fares when WN had already sold out of its discounted fares. Since WN sells a substantial percentage of its seats at Full Walkup Price, it doesn't have to sell as many at deep discounted fares like the other legacies you checked. B)
sfb's post is 100% TRUE. WN is often not the cheapest option. But WN is never an outrageous extortionary option. That is just another reason for 32 straight years of profitability. And it helps explain why USAir is on its last legs.
Whatnow? said:
OK, 5th Grade Reading Comprehension here:
I said,
"The point is not that Southwest always offers the lowest fare, since it's clear that they are often beaten by other airlines subject to availability, government fees for connections/segments, etc. The real point is that Southwest always offers a reasonable fare on its routes."
Taking randomly selected dates 3.5 weeks from now, I can find a PHL-HOU round-trip on Southwest for $210. As I said, they are often beaten by other airlines. But I can't see how you can argue that this is not a reasonable fare. Even the walk-up fare is $546 round-trip. Compare that to $1018 on US for PHL-DFW (unless you're willing to do a double-connect in PHL and RDU, which drops it down to $618).
Again, as I said, they are often beaten by other airlines, but their fares are always reasonable.
ELP_WN_Psgr
Senior
- Nov 29, 2003
- 419
- 0
Whatnow claims "not true" to sfb's statement that while WN may not offer the lowest fare, you can rely on them to always offer a reasonable fare.
Whatnow, I guess I would kindly ask you to define reasonable vs unreasonable.
You state that you were looking for seats between Philadelphia & Houston 3.5 weeks in advance and everyone came up cheaper. I won't disagree with that.
Everybody else is losing money. It's sort of like when you told your mom "everybody else is doing it" and she said "if everyone else jumped off of a cliff, would you jump off a cliff too?"
Just because other air carriers are having to give their product away at less than the cost of production doesn't mean that Southwest should follow suit.
In searching for a Southwest fare between Houston and Philadelphia, you never came across one higher that $265 each way + associated taxes and fees, did you?
That is the full unrestricted coach fare.
Philadelphia to Houston is roughly 1335 miles, so you are looking at a fare of .20 per mile.
Is that higher that I would want to pay? Well, yeah, I would rather go for $99.
Is it obscenely high? No. In fact, I would argue that a walk up fare for that long a trip with no restrictions or anything.....that $265 is still a fair price.
I'm sorry that other air carriers can't make money because they have to give seats away for prices that don't enable them to cover their operating costs. I'm sorry that, in an attempt to try and balance the books, they resort to gouging last-minute walk up fare type travelers.
Here's the secret, and the management of the so-called major airlines still don't get it: if you charge a reasonable walk up fare, you won't have to give away so many advance purchase seats at ridiculously low levels, because customers won't be turned away from buying walk up fare tickets.
I like the Walmart analogy. I need a tube of toothpaste. If I look thru the ads, and drive to every drugstore in town, I might find a store that has that brand of toothpaste on saleand be able to get it really cheap. or I can ride down to the WalMart Super Center, go in to the health & beauty aids department, buy the tube of toothpaste, confident in the knowledge that I might have found it a little bit cheaper but I did get it at a fair price.
Whatnow, I guess I would kindly ask you to define reasonable vs unreasonable.
You state that you were looking for seats between Philadelphia & Houston 3.5 weeks in advance and everyone came up cheaper. I won't disagree with that.
Everybody else is losing money. It's sort of like when you told your mom "everybody else is doing it" and she said "if everyone else jumped off of a cliff, would you jump off a cliff too?"
Just because other air carriers are having to give their product away at less than the cost of production doesn't mean that Southwest should follow suit.
In searching for a Southwest fare between Houston and Philadelphia, you never came across one higher that $265 each way + associated taxes and fees, did you?
That is the full unrestricted coach fare.
Philadelphia to Houston is roughly 1335 miles, so you are looking at a fare of .20 per mile.
Is that higher that I would want to pay? Well, yeah, I would rather go for $99.
Is it obscenely high? No. In fact, I would argue that a walk up fare for that long a trip with no restrictions or anything.....that $265 is still a fair price.
I'm sorry that other air carriers can't make money because they have to give seats away for prices that don't enable them to cover their operating costs. I'm sorry that, in an attempt to try and balance the books, they resort to gouging last-minute walk up fare type travelers.
Here's the secret, and the management of the so-called major airlines still don't get it: if you charge a reasonable walk up fare, you won't have to give away so many advance purchase seats at ridiculously low levels, because customers won't be turned away from buying walk up fare tickets.
I like the Walmart analogy. I need a tube of toothpaste. If I look thru the ads, and drive to every drugstore in town, I might find a store that has that brand of toothpaste on saleand be able to get it really cheap. or I can ride down to the WalMart Super Center, go in to the health & beauty aids department, buy the tube of toothpaste, confident in the knowledge that I might have found it a little bit cheaper but I did get it at a fair price.
pineybob
You no longer have to stand in line to get a boarding card at SWA. You can get it on-line the day before, or get it from the sky cap or the ticket agent when you check your bag. If you don't check your bag you can get it from the self-servic kiosk. This also includes any connecting flight.
You no longer have to stand in line to get a boarding card at SWA. You can get it on-line the day before, or get it from the sky cap or the ticket agent when you check your bag. If you don't check your bag you can get it from the self-servic kiosk. This also includes any connecting flight.
Whatnow?
Veteran
- Nov 4, 2003
- 862
- 8
Not really sure where your analogy is going? Plain and simple, not for the first time either, Most of the LEGACY carriers fares were and are lower than the fares on SWA. Walk up fares are totally different, I wasn't going to wait till the last minute to purchase a ticket to go on vacation, I want to take care of that in advance. Walk up fares are good for the last minute business meeting or last minute trip out of neccessity, but not for planning a vacation. The $99/$79 fares SWA offers are extremely limited, all I was saying is that all of the LEGACY carriers advance purchase tickets were less than SWA, at the time US,CO,DL,AA, & NWA all had R/T fares from $249-271 dollars, whereas SWA would have been over $349 dollars R/T. If they have to give away their product than so be it, flights were full and I did the enjoy the inflight product they offered....free movies, a hot meal, and several beverage services! I think the money was well spent!
As for US and the PIT flights, its just a matter of time before their cost structure takes affect, and from what the analyst are saying their costs will be below SWA, so they can compete equally! B)
As for US and the PIT flights, its just a matter of time before their cost structure takes affect, and from what the analyst are saying their costs will be below SWA, so they can compete equally! B)
