Southwest F/a's Working Free

[SWAFA30]

My wife is a FA at SWA, she worked her norm sched (90ish trips a month) last year and made $29,000 and has $45,000 to date in profit sharing. She was hired in late 97. $29,000 for 6 months of work. 15 days off almost every month, not including 2 weeks paid vacation, paid sick leave and the flexibility to change her schedule hours before her check-in.

We get 3 weeks of vacation after 5 years of service. If she started in 1997, she should have received a 3rd paid week in 2003 and 3 weeks paid this years as well. Base vacation pay is 26.5 trips...at her pay rate that's almost $600 in lost vacation pay for last year alone. Y'all might want to look into that.

She has a college degree and could make more money in her specialized field.

Then what on earth is she doing slumming it with us? Aren't we just lowering her IQ?


1) there were no real prerequisites for the job. Not even height to weight ratio.


Height Weight Proportionate is in the job description and they test you for it once and only once in training. Firing "overweight" flight attendants is the fast track to litigation. Why? Who is to say who is overweight? The height weight charts have been abolished never to return. You can't just eyeball it...whose "eyeball" do you go by? Fat to one inflight sup might be husky, stocky, or big-boned to another. The SWA legal team would be in court from now til doomsday.

2) that the job is almost brainless. Some FA's claim that they "might" have save your ass, nurses save more lives in one day than any career FA. School teachers know basic first aide and CPR.

How many school teachers and nurses had their throats slashed on 9/11? Does the flight attendant job require the same amount of skill as say a pilot or aircraft mechanic? No. Not even close. However, I would not go so far as to use the word "brainless". Unskilled? I'll accept that. Entry-Level? I'll cop to that too. But at the very least we are somewhere between actual skilled labor and needing a drool bucket.


3) She knew that the job entailed cleaning the airplane, working holidays, weekends, cleaning the airplane. SWA has been doing this for 30 years.

33 years in June. We don't clean, we "tidy". If she is still working holidays and weekends...she might want to think about changing bases. I've been flying for 6 years and I haven't work a major holiday since the Clinton Administration.

4) traveled with her last job. MONDAY-FRIDAY!! 5 DAYS STRAIGHT!!!! NOT A 3 DAY OR A 4 DAY. THAT'S EASY!

Then I definitely need to start buddy bidding with her. We ain't exactly doing stem cell research or working on a chain gang but I would describe my typical trip as anything but "easy".

Try working all day and then having to take clients to dinner 2 or 3 nights while your on the road!! Check the math 20 days on the month. Only Satuday and Sunday off. What she doesn't understand is why FA's feel so pissed off that after they are hired so many things about the job sucks.

If she does not understand after almost 7 years on line she likely never will but I bet it leads to some lively discussions on the jumpseat.


Why did they take the job?

Why do fools fall in love? Why do we paint our airplanes such ugly colors? Who knows why anyone does anything? The answer to that questions is unique to each and every person that has ever done the job.


They knew what the job entailed.

They thought they knew. Looking at the flight attendant job description on a piece of paper is a very different thing than actually living it. Knowing you will have to clean up after a violently ill airsick passenger is very different from actually have to get down on your hands and knees and clean up the vomit.

I'll tell why they took the job, it's not that bad.

Like the little girl from the nursery rhyme. When it's good, it's very good...but when it's bad...it's horrid.

I could go on and on but I am tired. I'll post more after I am flamed..
Bring on the debate.

No flames, no debate. "Officially" I've sworn off the whole subject. I commented on the subject in multiple threads and essentially said my peace. However, I still lurk on the board from time to time and when some resurrects an almost two month old thread I figure I can at least have the decency to give a shout out.

 

[H&K USP]

I guess it's getting late there is so much that needs replying to, I am going to take the shortest ones.
Why did they take the job?
The real question is why do they keep it? Quit if there are better jobs. AA, DL, NW, UAL.

You stoop so low to say anything about throats slashed on 9-11. What about the teachers in Littleton, Colorado? Shot to death at a school. Who would have thought that a school would be hijacked? Every job has at least some form of danger. I work in law enforcement where my pay is no where near $58,000 a year or $29,000 for six months work to get shot at, stabbed, run over, beat up, and don't forget sued. That’s the SLOW DAYS AT MY WORK. Don't tell me about death, I see it everyday for $33,000 a year. When we, cops etc. get into this field if we like it, we stay, if we don't we Q_U_I_T!!!
She says her job is no different than a stadium vendor. "Beer and Peanuts" And watch out for an occasional fly ball.

"Then I definitely need to start buddy bidding with her. We ain't exactly doing stem cell research or working on a chain gang but I would describe my typical trip as anything but "easy". "

Why is your job so hard? What's your back ground? Jobs before SWA FA? She did the 9-5 thing using her degree. Sit in traffic for 45 minutes going to work and 45 minutes coming home. She says the great thing about her SWA trips when she is done, she is done. Try commission sales. When you’re not at work you’re not making money. No paid sick time. She does have some real tough choices at her hotels, paint her nails, go to the mall, go running, sit by the pool, watch TV, read a book, play in the ocean, run around with friends, rent a car to go to Napa, go to Niagara Falls, golf. Only the last 3 cost $. Her last job didn't end most nights till after dinner 8PM, 9PM. Then right back at it 0800. No double time, no time and a half STRAIGHT SALERY............

Just curious.
Must be perspective. I dunno.

 

[H&K USP]

I missed one of my main reasons for posting in this thread.
Working for free? No airline pilot or FA get paid anything except per diem on the ground with the door open. Nobody. Pilots do lots of paper work, system checks, check lists, preflights, clearances and even SWA pilots do home study tests "off the clock". Duty Rigs are designed to cover any excessive ground time.

 

[H&K USP]

Why do fools fall in love? Why do we paint our airplanes such ugly colors?

I don't know why fools fall in love. Because they are fools?
Herb was on a flight I was on years ago and I ask him why the weird colors. He said if an AA airplane were to fly over your house, could you tell it was AA or maybe Delta, or even Continental? I said no. He said, but if a SWA flies over you can tell right? Yep. Marketing.

Just a little FYI

 

[Death of a Concorde]

How many school teachers and nurses had their throats slashed on 9/11?

From June 1999 to June 2000 1.5 million violent incidents (rape, sexual battery other than rape, physical attack or fight with or without a weapon, threat of physical attack with or without a weapon, and robbery with or without a weapon) occurred in public elementary and secondary schools resulting in the deaths of 8 school teachers (source: National Center for Education Statistics).

Don't know the answer for nurses.

 

[JS]

SWAFA30,

I see that in your latest response you wrote absolutely nothing about the flight attendants' contract negotiations. Everything you wrote will remain exactly the same after a new contract is ratified.

Clearly you hate your job, yet for some reason you refuse to quit. WHY???

I can tell you about some jobs that suck much more than being a Southwest Airlines flight attendant. Have you ever worked at a fast food restaurant? You get minimum wage to make greasy food and get yelled at by bitchy customers.

Have you ever worked at an amusement park that's closed two months out of the year? Being open 10 months a year qualifies you to be a seasonal worker, which means you don't get overtime. 80 times $4.50 is what you get for working 80 hours a week. People barf after getting off a ride a lot more often than they barf on airplanes.

Have you ever worked at an inventory service? They do pay overtime but most weeks there is no overtime. 4 AM to 9 AM one day, 9 PM to 2 AM the next day, then 5 AM to 10 AM (that's right, three hours after the previous job), and then three days of nothing. Every once in a while there was a 16-20 hour job. We got a lunch break if the job exceeded *12* hours -- wow!!!

I worked at these jobs I just listed (as well as others but you get the idea) when I needed the income and that was the best I could find. When I found something better, I put in my two weeks notice and said BU-BYE.

I suggest you do the same. You can either recognize the fact that you have it damn good for being semi-skilled labor (best semi-skilled job in the world as far as I can tell), or you can quit your job and work somewhere else.

 

[SWAFA30]

I guess it's getting late there is so much that needs replying to, I am going to take the shortest ones. Why did they take the job?
The real question is why do they keep it? Quit if there are better jobs. AA, DL, NW, UAL.

Don't forget B6, FL, and F9. But why quit, go through intial training, and climb the seniority list all over again when there a real chance of effecting change in your own back yard. Since Herb came back to the table in the company's place several proposals and counterproposals have changed hands. Both sides are talking, negotations are taking place. This could be all wrapped up before summer. Why quit now?

You stoop so low to say anything about throats slashed on 9-11. What about the teachers in Littleton, Colorado? Shot to death at a school. Who would have thought that a school would be hijacked? Every job has at least some form of danger.

Pointing out what happened on 9/11 is not stooping low. The cowards who committed those horrible acts are the ones that did all the stooping.

I work in law enforcement where my pay is no where near $58,000 a year or $29,000 for six months work to get shot at, stabbed, run over, beat up, and don't forget sued. That’s the SLOW DAYS AT MY WORK. Don't tell me about death, I see it everyday for $33,000 a year. When we, cops etc. get into this field if we like it, we stay, if we don't we Q_U_I_T!!!

Who said we don't like what we do?


She says her job is no different than a stadium vendor. "Beer and Peanuts" And watch out for an occasional fly ball.

Then again, why is she slumming? How does her self-esteem survive doing something so menial?

Why is your job so hard?

Never said it was hard. Just not easy.

What's your back ground? Jobs before SWA FA? She did the 9-5 thing using her degree. Sit in traffic for 45 minutes going to work and 45 minutes coming home. She says the great thing about her SWA trips when she is done, she is done. Try commission sales. When you’re not at work you’re not making money. No paid sick time. She does have some real tough choices at her hotels, paint her nails, go to the mall, go running, sit by the pool, watch TV, read a book, play in the ocean, run around with friends, rent a car to go to Napa, go to Niagara Falls, golf. Only the last 3 cost $. Her last job didn't end most nights till after dinner 8PM, 9PM. Then right back at it 0800. No double time, no time and a half STRAIGHT SALERY............Just curious. Must be perspective. I dunno.


If the rat race was not for her, I'm glad she has found her bliss. However you seem to think that because you andyour wife feel a certain way, all of us...her co-workers should fall in line behind you. Life doesn't work that way. Never has never will.

I missed one of my main reasons for posting in this thread.
Working for free? No airline pilot or FA get paid anything except per diem on the ground with the door open. Nobody. Pilots do lots of paper work, system checks, check lists, preflights, clearances and even SWA pilots do home study tests "off the clock". Duty Rigs are designed to cover any excessive ground time.

And flight attendants tidy the aircraft, deplane, re-board, assist with wheelchairs and unaccompanied minor children, stow carry-ons as needed, restock galley supplies at outstations, perform cabin security compliance checks and safety demontstrations. Further we also have an annual recurrent training home study and manual revisions througout the year. But you're married to a flight attendant so you already knew all of that.

 

[SWAFA30]

SWAFA30,

I see that in your latest response you wrote absolutely nothing about the flight attendants' contract negotiations. Everything you wrote will remain exactly the same after a new contract is ratified.

No specific questions about the state of negotiations were asked. If they had been, I would have been happy to address them. If there is something in particular you would like to kick around...let's talk about that.



Clearly you hate your job, yet for some reason you refuse to quit. WHY???

Don't hate my job, just want to be paid more to do it.

I can tell you about some jobs that suck much more than being a Southwest Airlines flight attendant. Have you ever worked at a fast food restaurant? You get minimum wage to make greasy food and get yelled at by bitchy customers.

Worked at a local burger joint in high school. All the free fries and milkshakes I wanted. I gained 20 pounds.


Have you ever worked at an amusement park that's closed two months out of the year? Being open 10 months a year qualifies you to be a seasonal worker, which means you don't get overtime. 80 times $4.50 is what you get for working 80 hours a week. People barf after getting off a ride a lot more often than they barf on airplanes.

They might want to think about organizing. If they're slogging through that much puke in a workday they definitely need a salary bump.

Have you ever worked at an inventory service? They do pay overtime but most weeks there is no overtime. 4 AM to 9 AM one day, 9 PM to 2 AM the next day, then 5 AM to 10 AM (that's right, three hours after the previous job), and then three days of nothing. Every once in a while there was a 16-20 hour job. We got a lunch break if the job exceeded *12* hours -- wow!!!

You got lunch breaks? I never get lunch breaks.



I worked at these jobs I just listed (as well as others but you get the idea) when I needed the income and that was the best I could find. When I found something better, I put in my two weeks notice and said BU-BYE. I suggest you do the same.

I'll make you a deal. I won't tell you how to live your life if you don't tell me how to live mine.

You can either recognize the fact that you have it damn good for being semi-skilled labor (best semi-skilled job in the world as far as I can tell), or you can quit your job and work somewhere else.

Or... I can stay at SWA and keep working towards a new contract?

But alas, here we are again, hammering away at the same points of view over and over again and no minds or hearts ever get changed. I think we all know where we stand. If there's a specific point or question that needs my attention feel free to drop me a PM...otherwise I'm heading back into cybespace. Meet back when we have a TA or some form of self-help whichever comes first. Until then it's just mental masturbation.

 

[KCFlyer]

Since Herb came back to the table in the company's place several proposals and counterproposals have changed hands. Both sides are talking, negotations are taking place. This could be all wrapped up before summer. Why quit now?

I still maintain that it's a shame that the negotiating team did not see fit to negotiate with Parker - instead opting for the media campaign (which has been suspiciously absent these past few weeks - outside of the local demonstration in PHL while Herb was in town) and refusing to end the negotiations via media that Parker had requested be ended.

 

[FWAAA]

Don't hate my job, just want to be paid more to do it.

And with many thousands of people willing to do your job for your current pay (or maybe even less), you have yet to present a credible argument for getting a pay raise.

Given the events at other airlines, you are probably lucky the management isn't demanding concessions. B)

 

[H&K USP]

SWAFA30, I like you...
I mean it. I don't think we completely understand each other but I like you.

 

[txskygal]

My wife is a FA at SWA, she worked her norm sched (90ish trips a month) last year and made $29,000 and has $45,000 to date in profit sharing. She was hired in late 97. $29,000 for 6 months of work. 15 days off almost every month, not including 2 weeks paid vacation, paid sick leave and the flexibility to change her schedule hours before her check-in.

Hi! I must respectfully disagree with your numbers above. And, here is why.

Your wife has been a WN FA for 6+ years. That means that her pay scale is $24.12 per trip. (I will use 95 trip per month average in this example). 95 trips times $24.12 = $2,291.40 per month base salery. $2,291.40 times 6 months = $13,748.40 for a six month period of time. Which equals $27, 496.80 for a 12 month period of time.

Which means there ain't no ever-loving way; she made $29,000.00 for 1 6-month (your quote, not mine) period of work!!!

Do you understand why I had to challenge your claim to what you said she made? It is completely inaccurate; and misleading! There is enough misinformation and lack-of-knowledge about our industry and career as it is. I could not allow this bit to stand without elaboration.

:down:

 

[H&K USP]

I am not about to post her W-2 but as you can see here after profit sharing and per diem she did make it. So there. Liar, liar, pants on fire.

The following is from the MYSWA site and our accountant has backed all of the following numbers.


Based on your paid trips and per diem in 2003, your gross pay in 2003 was: $29,153.29 Note: This includes both taxable and nontaxable items, such as per diem, and therefore is different than your W-2 earnings.
If you flew the same trips in 2004 as you flew in 2003, at the proposed 2004 pay rates under Southwest’s offer your total trip pay and per diem would be: $33,268.74 If you flew the same trips in 2005 as you flew in 2003, at the proposed 2005 pay rates under Southwest’s offer your total trip pay and per diem would be: $35,651.82 If you flew the same trips in 2008 (the last year of the contract) as you flew in 2003, at the proposed 2008 pay rates under Southwest’s offer your total trip pay and per diem would be: $44,305.89 Southwest’s offer also includes many other improvements designed to provide you with a secure future.

 

[H&K USP]

I just did the math and you are right she did not work six months last year she worked 132 days and had 233 days off.

 

[txskygal]

I am not about to post her W-2 but as you can see here after profit sharing and per diem she did make it. So there. Liar, liar, pants on fire.

:down:

At the VERY least; you were deceiving our fellow forum members. You stated that she worked for 6 months and made $29,000. That implies she would have made $58,000 if she had worked 12 months. That is a quite different affair from separating out the days she did, and did not work; therefore stating that she worked 6 months for $29,000!

By using deceptive math and examples; it would be you, yourself; who is the LIAR! In actually the days she did work is a full-time job. To imply otherwise is intellectually dishonest!