CynicalResAgent
Veteran
Can we shoot the messanger now?
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Some Interesting News Comments
- Thread starter USA320Pilot
- Start date
firstamendment
Veteran
- Apr 1, 2003
- 1,348
- 0
hey did you get my pm?CynicalResAgent said:
usairways_vote_NO
Veteran
- Sep 9, 2002
- 1,882
- 57
SELF HELP
CODE
Dated March 2003 ref:
The bankruptcy courts seem generally sympathetic to debtor-employers and grant rejection rather liberally. Furthermore, most courts that grant rejection simply issue orders “approving†the employer’s rejection, without discussing the possibility of protecting post-rejection employee rights. To date, no court has addressed the application of the Railway Labor Act after Section 1113 rejection. The most sensible result appears to entail some sort of bargaining impasse doctrine, leaving the carrier free to implement modifications necessary for the Chapter 11 reorganization, but granting employees the right to strike (and limiting the employer’s discretion to exact further concessions). However, there is no explicit basis for this result in the statute, nor is there judicial precedent directly on point.
Also:
Whatever position the court may take with respect to its remedial rejection powers, the federal labor laws will ultimately govern the parties’ post-rejection relationship. The Bankruptcy Code may briefly usurp certain aspects of the NLRA and RLA during the rejection process, but it does not do so on a permanent basis.34 Thus, even if the Bankruptcy Court’s power were limited to approving a rejection, the parties would not necessarily acquire discretion to engage in unlimited self-help.
There is no precedent to guide the court’s decision regarding the parties’ post-rejection obligations under the RLA. A number of possibilities present themselves. First, the effects of rejection may be similar to the consequences of an amendable date clause – thus compelling the parties to maintain the status quo and exhaust the Section 6 process of negotiations, mediation and “cooling off†before engaging in self-help.35 Second, rejection may bring the parties to an equivalent of the Section 6 impasse, allowing immediate self-help measures. Finally, the rejection process may be considered a total bypass of Section 6, leaving the parties with only their Section 2(First)36 duties to bargain, which would perhaps entail some sort of obligation to maintain the status quo through a specialized impasse doctrine.
CODE
Dated March 2003 ref:
The bankruptcy courts seem generally sympathetic to debtor-employers and grant rejection rather liberally. Furthermore, most courts that grant rejection simply issue orders “approving†the employer’s rejection, without discussing the possibility of protecting post-rejection employee rights. To date, no court has addressed the application of the Railway Labor Act after Section 1113 rejection. The most sensible result appears to entail some sort of bargaining impasse doctrine, leaving the carrier free to implement modifications necessary for the Chapter 11 reorganization, but granting employees the right to strike (and limiting the employer’s discretion to exact further concessions). However, there is no explicit basis for this result in the statute, nor is there judicial precedent directly on point.
Also:
Whatever position the court may take with respect to its remedial rejection powers, the federal labor laws will ultimately govern the parties’ post-rejection relationship. The Bankruptcy Code may briefly usurp certain aspects of the NLRA and RLA during the rejection process, but it does not do so on a permanent basis.34 Thus, even if the Bankruptcy Court’s power were limited to approving a rejection, the parties would not necessarily acquire discretion to engage in unlimited self-help.
There is no precedent to guide the court’s decision regarding the parties’ post-rejection obligations under the RLA. A number of possibilities present themselves. First, the effects of rejection may be similar to the consequences of an amendable date clause – thus compelling the parties to maintain the status quo and exhaust the Section 6 process of negotiations, mediation and “cooling off†before engaging in self-help.35 Second, rejection may bring the parties to an equivalent of the Section 6 impasse, allowing immediate self-help measures. Finally, the rejection process may be considered a total bypass of Section 6, leaving the parties with only their Section 2(First)36 duties to bargain, which would perhaps entail some sort of obligation to maintain the status quo through a specialized impasse doctrine.
OP
USA320Pilot
Veteran
- May 18, 2003
- 8,175
- 1,539
- Thread Starter
- Thread starter
- #19
Bobcat:
Bobcat said: "Again, this group could care less if US survives or not...they want out!"
USA320Pilot comments: Then why do you and others still work at US Airways with 21% less? Who is forcing you to stay?
Regards,
USA320Pilot
Bobcat said: "Again, this group could care less if US survives or not...they want out!"
USA320Pilot comments: Then why do you and others still work at US Airways with 21% less? Who is forcing you to stay?
Regards,
USA320Pilot
UseYourHead
Veteran
- Apr 1, 2003
- 720
- 0
Steeltown mentality...ah-huh.
PitBull, if it is soooo bad, do us all a favor and leave.
Ya I know, not you, your here to shut it down, blah-blah-blah.
What will you do when the strike is illegal? Will you take it out on our passengers now?
PitBull, if it is soooo bad, do us all a favor and leave.
Ya I know, not you, your here to shut it down, blah-blah-blah.
What will you do when the strike is illegal? Will you take it out on our passengers now?
PITbull said:
UseYourHead
Veteran
- Apr 1, 2003
- 720
- 0
Guys like this are the very last to leave, I doubt anyone would hire them...could you blame them?
USA320Pilot said:
PITbull
Veteran
- Dec 29, 2002
- 7,784
- 456
The f/as in PIT to not subscribe to your ideology of "save the pilots" nonsense, thus "save the company".
And the f/as in PIT will be transferring to the big bases when PIT actually downsizes. Keep in mind, PIT is a very senior base, and was once 3,000. Many of theose folks have transferred already these past two years, and are already in those bases.
This is not about PIT f/as, but about f/as already in many of the bases who are preparing to leave.
However, if you have been reading the PIT papers, the business community is already invovled with the employees of U, and are having a job fair after the first of the year. There have already been "business links" for f/as to apply for employment outside of U just recently. Trust, they are preparing but not until after the vote. How unfortunate for you.
And the f/as in PIT will be transferring to the big bases when PIT actually downsizes. Keep in mind, PIT is a very senior base, and was once 3,000. Many of theose folks have transferred already these past two years, and are already in those bases.
This is not about PIT f/as, but about f/as already in many of the bases who are preparing to leave.
However, if you have been reading the PIT papers, the business community is already invovled with the employees of U, and are having a job fair after the first of the year. There have already been "business links" for f/as to apply for employment outside of U just recently. Trust, they are preparing but not until after the vote. How unfortunate for you.
UseYourHead
Veteran
- Apr 1, 2003
- 720
- 0
This is not about saving the pilots, how dare you! It is the company at stake...you ya, you don't care I forgot...you want to take it down.
I know all about PIT, I was based there for +/- 10 years.
I think the job fairs are great for all of us who do not want to stay, there is a whole world out there waiting. I, like many are all set with that, if that is the way the cards play out.
Leaving is choice, and I am excited for everyone who goes that direction!
I know all about PIT, I was based there for +/- 10 years.
I think the job fairs are great for all of us who do not want to stay, there is a whole world out there waiting. I, like many are all set with that, if that is the way the cards play out.
Leaving is choice, and I am excited for everyone who goes that direction!
PITbull said:
D
deano
Guest
UseYourHead said:
fear (f"r), n.
1. a distressing emotion aroused by impending danger, evil, pain, etc., whether the threat is real or imagined; the feeling or condition of being afraid.
2. a specific instance of or propensity for such a feeling: an abnormal fear of heights.
3. concern or anxiety; solicitude: a fear for someone's safety.
4. reverential awe, esp. toward God.
5. that which causes a feeling of being afraid; that of which a person is afraid: Cancer is a common fear.
–v.t.
6. to regard with fear; be afraid of.
7. to have reverential awe of.
8. Archaic. to experience fear in (oneself).
–v.i.
9. to have fear; be afraid.
[bef. 900; ME fere, OE fær sudden attack or danger; c. OS f!r ambush, D gevaar, G Gefahr danger, ON f!r disaster]
—Syn.1. apprehension, consternation, dismay, terror, fright, panic, horror, trepidation. FEAR, ALARM, DREAD all imply a painful emotion experienced when one is confronted by threatening danger or evil. ALARM implies an agitation of the feelings caused by awakening to imminent danger; it names a feeling of fright or panic: He started up in alarm. FEAR and DREAD usually refer more to a condition or state than to an event. FEAR is often applied to an attitude toward something, which, when experienced, will cause the sensation of fright: fear of falling. DREAD suggests anticipation of something, usually a particular event, which, when experienced, will be disagreeable rather than frightening: She lives in dread of losing her money. The same is often true of FEAR, when used in a negative statement: She has no fear she'll lose her money. 6. apprehend, dread.
UseYourHead
Veteran
- Apr 1, 2003
- 720
- 0
Whenever someone has something positive about the company, or puts the facts out about our situation, they are afraid...
EAT CROW
People are afraid to post here, because they do not want to get jumped on by the likes of you, PitBull, and other who NEVER have anything positive or realistic to say.
TOO BAD!
I and other around here are not afraid, we are sick and tired of this crap. So, get used to it, I will continue to post as I see fit....
This is not about saving the pilots, its about saving the company. Pick up a newspaper, read about the airline industry (any industry)
DUH
EAT CROW
People are afraid to post here, because they do not want to get jumped on by the likes of you, PitBull, and other who NEVER have anything positive or realistic to say.
TOO BAD!
I and other around here are not afraid, we are sick and tired of this crap. So, get used to it, I will continue to post as I see fit....
This is not about saving the pilots, its about saving the company. Pick up a newspaper, read about the airline industry (any industry)
DUH
deano said:
D
deano
Guest
The DUUUUUUUUUUUUUUH is in your posts smart fellow....
How can a company be saved when the employees of that company must jump into a live volcano for it to happen?
What don't you understand about employees reaction, what is it you consider abnormal behavior?
The way employees are behaving here on the boards and thru out the system is perfectly normal, and the abnormal response is seen in the "few" fear filled employees such as you are brightly displaying.
If history was filled when people of your convictions we all would be slaves in bondage to the masters you worship.
Dog Wonder
Veteran
"People are afraid to post here"
Of course they are scared. That is why they grasp for anything that indicates US Airways management is trying to do anything but find a reason to liquidate and blame it on some one else.
Of course they are scared. That is why they grasp for anything that indicates US Airways management is trying to do anything but find a reason to liquidate and blame it on some one else.
UYH,
If the company truly wanted to change the way it operates, they would adopt the Southwest model. The most successful of the LCC's. They treat their employees fairly, and as a result the employees respect their management. Also Southwest has NO RJ'S, they have no AFFILIATE flying, NO codesharing and their management is competent. When this company is run like Southwest, treats their Employees, like Southwest does, and PAYS their workers like Southwest, then there may be something positive to say. These are the FACTS!
If the company truly wanted to change the way it operates, they would adopt the Southwest model. The most successful of the LCC's. They treat their employees fairly, and as a result the employees respect their management. Also Southwest has NO RJ'S, they have no AFFILIATE flying, NO codesharing and their management is competent. When this company is run like Southwest, treats their Employees, like Southwest does, and PAYS their workers like Southwest, then there may be something positive to say. These are the FACTS!
DR.EVIL
Advanced
- Mar 23, 2004
- 198
- 0
320 try saying these words "Welcome to wall mart", that is all a out work old pilot will be qualified for. We are all glad to see this circus shut down, most of already have our next job in waiting in the wings. Please take your heart medication and dream about how much you used to make or how large your pension used to be.
P.S. get a life, its almost over
P.S. get a life, its almost over
