Small Airlines Oppose Plan For U.s. Aid To United

[avek00]

UAL has operation in economically sensitive states with large Congressional Delegations; The Loan will be approved. Colorado, California, Illinois and Virginia are all large Ua bases of operation with many employees.

The same was said in late 2002, but the smoke-and-mirrors trick didn't fly with the ATSB. From a political standpoint, while a loss of jobs would undoubtedly be bad, a taxpayer-backed bailout of a failed carrier's defaults could be worse...

 

[iflyjetz]

iflyjetz,

Woah big fella,

Yes, there are those vocal minorities, that wish for LGB to be closed, same airport that has been there for eons, but now the houses are getting close. The same airport, that was home to Douglas and now Boeing. There will always be a vocal minority, the examples are to numerous to mention. HPN, white plains is another story, heck, I am sure you could find people who would like to see ORD go away.

As far as LGB wanting traffic, it was widely reported, at the time jetBlue announced service, that the city council had approached AMR to increase service, AMR declined. I will see if I can find some articles for you.

Dizel8, as you know, this whole faceless internet forum is a great place to hone one's sarcastic humor. 😀
I was based at LAX (and living in Beverly Hills 90211; the 'poor' side of town) when JBLU decided to expand into LGB, so I feel comfortable in my assessment of the public sentiment at that time.
The slots at LGB could easily be lifted IF the LGB city council favored lifting them. Those slot limitations are not federally mandated; it is a local restriction. While you hint that LGB city council was scouting for additional flights into LGB, I would suggest that anyone on city council pushing for expanded service out of LGB would not be reelected.
As for houses encroaching on LGB, that would be an understatement. I've driven around LGB and can tell you that it's in the middle of multiple housing developments. The same holds true for SNA and ONT. The difference in those communities is that SNA and ONT are willing to accept some tradeoffs for the convenience of a local airport. (SNA and ONT are much further away from LAX than LGB).
LGB is not so far away from LAX (just a 'quick' trip up the 405; locals know how to time it so that they're not stuck in bumper to bumper traffic) or ONT that locals feel the need to have a lot of service out of LGB. I've driven all over LA and can tell you without hesitation that you need to know the traffic flows. I've sat on the 405/60/91/101/5/105/605/10/110/210//710 moving at 5 MPH; I've also driven at 110 MPH for extended periods on those same pieces of concrete. It's all a timing thing. (Did I mention that I miss LA? It's THE best city on the planet, bar none).
I don't know where you're getting your information from, or what articles you will reference, but I would suggest that it is NOT from people who live in LGB or the surrounding communities.

 

[Just Plane Crazy]

LAX is at the maximum of its capacity and facing a lot of construction in the near future. A cooperation between LAX ang LGB could be on the horizon. It is not that difficult to get a service up and running between LAX and LGB. It could be a train or a bus shuttle service. Close the Car Pool Lane on the 405 and make it a bus only line. All over the sudden a transfer from LAX to LGB will take 20 - 25 min. SW does not fly out of SFO, ORD or DAL. So why should they not opt for the possebility to fly out of LGB in the future and leave LAX to the international carriers. They would become over night the king @ LGB.

LGB is there to stay and grow. Since Boeing is not making any PAX aircrafts there any more, there is a lot of space to build a new terminal for PAX service.

 

[biztraveller29]

I don't know where you're getting your information from, or what articles you will reference, but I would suggest that it is NOT from people who live in LGB or the surrounding communities.

Iflyjetz --
As a resident of LA I can concur with Dizel8. The LB Press Telegram and the LA Times both reported that the city of Long Beach was wanting AMR to add flights but was refused, when B6 approached wanting to fly there (contingent upon them being able to have ALL the available slots). The City Council then negotiated with B6 secretly, and announced the deal. After that, AA became MUCH more interested in providing service.

I'm not sure how this relates to the United loan guarantee issue, but I thought I'd chime in with what I know. Besides, I have to say: I totally concur with you about it being an awesome city to live in (snide comments from others aside).

Frankly, I feel that if US Airways was eligible for a loan guarantee, I don't see why United shouldn't be. At least United has the appearance of a business plan, unlike U, as has become painfully clear.

 

[iflyjetz]

LAX is at the maximum of its capacity and facing a lot of construction in the near future. A cooperation between LAX ang LGB could be on the horizon. It is not that difficult to get a service up and running between LAX and LGB. It could be a train or a bus shuttle service. Close the Car Pool Lane on the 405 and make it a bus only line. All over the sudden a transfer from LAX to LGB will take 20 - 25 min. SW does not fly out of SFO, ORD or DAL. So why should they not opt for the possebility to fly out of LGB in the future and leave LAX to the international carriers. They would become over night the king @ LGB.

LGB is there to stay and grow. Since Boeing is not making any PAX aircrafts there any more, there is a lot of space to build a new terminal for PAX service.

It's been a couple of years since I flew out of LAX (furloughed in Mar 02), but I did fly out of LAX pre-911 and would have to say that I didn't think that LAX was at maximum capacity. I can't recall being more than number 6 in line for departure pre-911. Post-911, LAX was a ghost town ... eerie. ORD, ATL, PHL, and LGA have much larger problems than LAX.
As for closing the car pool lane on the 405, I can only imagine what that would do to traffic during morning rush hour(s). I got stuck in that traffic a few times and I can remember thinking that they needed to double the number of lanes on the 405. Even the car pool lane slows to a crawl in certain spots. I don't see the advantage of busing passengers to LGB ... if LAX were getting maxed out on capacity, a better solution would be to fly them into ONT and then connect on the hourly flights to LAX.

Biztraveler, I'm surprised that the LGB councilmembers were able to keep their elected offices. I would think that there's a large enough NIMBY movement there to allow anti-LGB airport candidates to be elected and control the city council. The LGB slots are restricted by city noise ordinance; if the council was pushing for major expansion of LGB, it would seem that the prudent course of action would be to lift the noise ordinance.
BTW, I'm envious of you living in LA; I'm stuck back in the midwest.

 

[whatkindoffreshhell]

Whoopwhoopwhoop! Thread drift, losing focus, going off course, wasting resources, starting silly new stuff, senseless arguing....

Hey, isn't that the same thing the ATSB will see at UA?

avek00 is very correct. This board just doesn't like Greek choruses.

And that old bs argument about "large populations in key states" is nonsense. But you keep spouting it flyjetz. Ask Denny Hastert for tips on this strategy.

Better hope that Bronner closes down US in a neat fashion. How could UA even dream of an ATSB guaranty if the taxpayers are burned by USAir?

Those brave bankers won't lift a finger for UA without a co-signer and Uncle Sam ain't going to do it. Even if the Dems win in November do you really think the creditors will wait that long?

Find another way out guys. You can do it.

 

[iflyjetz]

And that old bs argument about "large populations in key states" is nonsense. But you keep spouting it flyjetz. Ask Denny Hastert for tips on this strategy.

I don't know who you're quoting, but it isn't me.

I don't have a warm fuzzy on the ATSB's final decision and I haven't entered an opinion on it for quite a while.

 

[johnny gearpin]

What kind of tradeoffs are there for UAL in taking the loan (if approved, of course)? Didn't America West give up some control to the Gov't?

Regards,

Johnny Gearpin

 

[iflyjetz]

What kind of tradeoffs are there for UAL in taking the loan (if approved, of course)? Didn't America West give up some control to the Gov't?

Regards,

Johnny Gearpin

IIRC, it was a boatload of stock options with a fairly low strike price.