Skyword Article-TWA Senority Dispute

[Sgt. Friday]

[blockquote]
----------------
On 11/4/2002 10:57:00 PM A77IGW wrote:

[blockquote]
----------------
On 10/29/2002 5:27:44 PM Sgt. Friday wrote:

[blockquote]
----------------
On 10/28/2002 10:01:22 PM FA Mikey wrote:

Fact is Ms Cooper is going to try to make a living out filing lawsuits and annoying the hard working AA f/a's.

----------------
[/blockquote]
if AA had a contract like TWA we would be out of business....do the numbers we are alive and flying you are not and stapled to the bottom
----------------
You say we are alive like every thing is fine. Aa work rules could change so much for the better of both the Company and it's people and save Millions. We have an insight to things because we worked for a company with no money. We watch the dreadful waste at AA and the inability to adapt and we want to cry or laugh because AA doesn't get it, you don't get it you are headed right where TWA was. Arrogance abounds at AA and it will not serve you well.
Furloughed f/a's were supposed to travel ticketless on the new system for example to save the money on paper tickets. AA didn't get their crap together and at last minute went back to the paper, now gonna send a letter, paper-postage etc. to inform us that we are back to the old way... small but common example of the stupid things this airline had better change.(but can''t seem to) Move over TWA there's someone wanting your parking space...

 

[coldplay]

what I really cannot understand is how you ex-TWA'rs see yourselves as The Saving Force of AMR. Just exactly where would you be today IF AMR did not acquire TWA? some may say you'd probably still be flying but at a smaller capacity pre-9/11. Others may say not existing at all.
Whatever the delusion or illusion you want to believe in, the fact is TWA is no more. It's been acquired by AMR. whether you like it or not, that's the cold hard fact.

AA has survived over the years. You claim that your workforce can and could provide valuable insight and opportunities for AMR. yes, I'll agree to that BUT I also have to say that with you or without you AA is going to manage to find ways to survive. If it does not, then so be it but THEY do not need your expertise. If you were such an expert on how an airline should be run, why does TWA only exist in aviation history books today?

No one can say that they're exclusively the only part of the company that can save it from the financial and economical crisis we face today. We all need to stick as ONE cohesive force, but because of the grand illusion that TWA'rs are the best, was part of a great airline, stuck together over the years, etc. well that's just undermining the efforts to bring this company around. Fine, TWA was a great airline...but notice the word WAS. You're part of AA now, you don't like the way things are then before you criticize and complain, just think of where you'd be today if this EVIL company did not help save TWA in some way. AA can manage without you too, as been proven before it bought you out.
I know of a few hundred people out on unemployment who would rather have all these atrocious and Evil unions and worst than TWA work conditions you complain about, than be in the predicament they're in today.

A lot of you complain too much of what you have, which is easy to do when you still have a job. I don't think you'd be singing the same tune if you found yourselves lining up for unemployment.

 

[Sgt. Friday]

you must not have read a single word anybody has said we are here at AA we want to work for the best we do not want to see AA Fail. We will not just be good lil Nazi's though and not question that which is wrong/bad/ or poorly done. We do have a stake in this.

 

[riptide44]

[blockquote]
----------------
On 11/5/2002 4:55:23 PM coldplay wrote:

what I really cannot understand is how you ex-TWA'rs see yourselves as "The Saving Force" of AMR. Just exactly where would you be today IF AMR did not acquire TWA? some may say you'd probably still be flying but at a smaller capacity pre-9/11. Others may say not existing at all.
Whatever the delusion or illusion you want to believe in, the fact is TWA is no more. It's been acquired by AMR. whether you like it or not, that's the cold hard fact.

AA has survived over the years. You claim that your workforce can and could provide valuable insight and opportunities for AMR. yes, I'll agree to that BUT I also have to say that with you or without you AA is going to manage to find ways to survive. If it does not, then so be it but THEY do not need your "expertise". If you were such an expert on how an airline should be run, why does TWA only exist in aviation history books today?

No one can say that they're exclusively the only part of the company that can save it from the financial and economical crisis we face today. We all need to stick as ONE cohesive force, but because of the grand illusion that TWA'rs are the "best", was part of a great airline, stuck together over the years, etc. well that's just undermining the efforts to bring this company around. Fine, TWA was a great airline...but notice the word "WAS". You're part of AA now, you don't like the way things are then before you criticize and complain, just think of where you'd be today if this "EVIL" company did not help save TWA in some way. AA can manage without you too, as been proven before it bought you out.
I know of a few hundred people out on unemployment who would rather have all these "atrocious" and "Evil unions" and "worst than TWA" work conditions you complain about, than be in the predicament they're in today.

A lot of you complain too much of what you have, which is easy to do when you still have a job. I don't think you'd be singing the same tune if you found yourselves lining up for unemployment.
----------------
[/blockquote]
All the issues you refer to have been referenced on this board. I suggest you go back and read them.

 

[AC AA LA FA]

No..I think he/she means the one that was BK,trying to operate in a time when the industry is loosing millions a day, and has thousands out of work with no paycheck...that one...

 

[kirkpatrick]

Do you mean the old National Airlines that Pan Am bought and gave seniority to, who then got seniority when the Pacific went to United, or got seniority when the Atlantic went to Delta?

MK

 

[MiAAmi]

I wonder if anyone from National Airlines would think that the TWA'ers are being treated fairly?

 

[MiAAmi]

The National Airlines that shut down tonight was what I was refering to. I don't remember the old National Airlines declaring bankruptcy, do you Kirkpatrick?

 

[MiAAmi]

If I remeber right, the original National Airlines was a profitable carrier that was bought by Pan Am for that reason. It was only after deregulation that Pan Am found itself in trouble.

 

[Cosmo]

[blockquote]
----------------
On 11/7/2002 2:08:46 PM MiAAmi wrote:

It was only after deregulation that Pan Am found itself in trouble.
----------------
[/blockquote]
That's not correct. Pan Am was the launch customer that ordered 25 early-version B747-100s based on the traffic growth rates of the 1960s boom years. But most of the planes were delivered during the recessionary years of the early to mid-1970s, and the carrier had a great deal of trouble filling such large aircraft. Losses ensued, and Pan Am was then hit with the oil crisis that began during 1973, which only exacerbated the carrier's problems. In fact, in 1975 Pan Am (and TWA as well) applied to the old CAB for hundreds of millions of dollars in annual subsidies to support their international operations. But the government turned down the subsidy requests.

So while deregulation in 1978 certainly did not help Pan Am, their problems began many years earlier.

 

[MiAAmi]

I stand corrected. Actually what my point with this was that the old National was a profitable carrier when Pan Am aquired them vrs TWA was a bankrupt company when AA bought them. The way Pan Am dealt with seniority is a completely different ballgame.

 

[MrMarky]

[P]Hi Kiddies,[/P]
[P]How about you all let that water under the seniority bridge just go flowing on by for now and work together to make American not just the best airline, but a profitable, thriving airline. Once you have helped turn the company around, then you can have a big shootout at the OK corral, and I'll proudly support my friends from TWA.[/P]
[P]But in the meantime, if you take a look around the industry, with bodies piling up everywhere, and you take a look at the economy, and you look at the prospects of war, and you look at the results from this week's elections, I'd have to borrow a famous line from the n[STRONG]AA[/STRONG]tives, add just a little twist to it and say: You are [STRONG]all [/STRONG]lucky to have a job! [/P]
[P]So don't fight--play nice! Even Stalin and Roosevelt were allies once when they had a common battle to wage. All of you on both sides need to realize that right now, what should unite you is far greater than what may divide you. This is a time of true crisis for the industry and especially for AA. [/P]
[P]My dear friends from TWA oughta be a lot more experienced than their AA counterparts at one thing --- seeing the train wreck coming! It is surely coming and nothing can do more to stop it then if you guys would just join hands and work together to secure a future for everybody.[/P]
[P]OK, that's it for now. Meantime, AA will continue to get all the business I can throw at you because I want to see all of you gainfully employed at your airline. And I might add, the service and treatment I've gotten at AA has been great just like it was at TWA. All of you make it easy to choose AA. [/P]
[P]Thanks for listening,[/P]
[P]m[STRONG]AA[/STRONG]rky[/P]

 

[TWAB717]

I think I'm right when I say that it happened to be a former TWA employee (Robert Crandall) who made AMR what it WAS. Now only years later do the remaining (less each day) TWA'ers come along to help resurrect the ole tarnished silver bird.

 

[coldplay]

[blockquote]
----------------
On 11/8/2002 7:48:50 PM TWAB717 wrote:

I think I'm right when I say that it happened to be a former TWA employee (Robert Crandall) who made AMR what it WAS. Now only years later do the remaining (less each day) TWA'ers come along to help resurrect the ole tarnished silver bird.
----------------
[/blockquote]

and Lee Iacocca, a former Ford employee, made Chrysler what it was...so what was the point of Crandall being a former TWA employee, that all credit should now go to TWA and not the man himself?
AMR was doing quite well before purchasing TWA. I think it would have been doing a lot better today without the purchase, not as profitable but still doing a lot better. where would that have left the remaining TWA'ers? out on the streets OR still flying TWA on a day to day basis not knowing if today would be the day it finally shuts down OR piecemealed to other airlines still flying today.
well I may agree that you may be some help in resurrecting the ole tarnished bird as you so eloquently described AA and AMR, it also goes to say that you also helped, among other economic turn of events, in turning AA into the ole tarnished bird that needs ressurecting in the first place.

as to the type of help you guys may offer, when we see a train barreling down on us, You may shout get off the track! BUT chances are we're in the middle of jumping off the track. The shout was a bit of help but useless too in a certain way.

 

[TWAB717]

Can I ask for a show of hands for those AA'ers jumping ship? Exactly. How many times have we been blasted for staying with a company bleeding money. Also, did everybody forget the untold millions of dollars in federal grant money that TWA brought to the fold by adding to AA's size??????? I leave this post with a fact that will forever hold true, it's ONLY because of TWA that AA is now the number 1 airline.