Shop Stewards new athority

[Wretched Wrench]

Informing management is clearly a conflict of interest.

"CONFLICT OF INTEREST!"

Are you running for today's Understatement Award?

 

[flyhigh]

...depends on how you view it. Without an American Airlines, a union can't do much for you (even though I know most of you think the union doesn't do anything). So, an American Airlines employee, who is moonlighting per se as a local union rep, is informing management that somebody isn't pulling their weight therefore, making the company less efficient.

Also, most of the shop stewards I've been around have somewhat of a god complex. This typically translates into a "I don't do work" complex. At least this way, they're doing someting.

Also, regarding the question re: crew chiefs. Let's say a crew chiefs assigns a guy to do work. Said mechanic refuses to do the work. Under this theory, the crew chief who's also a union guy, shoul throw up his or her hands and hope someone else accepts the work, but don't dare tell a supervisor/manager. How could this possible make sense. What if you see one of these guys who the stewards are supposed to "rat" on in the bathroom takings drugs? Should he be "ratted out" before they go to work on another aircraft or not because they are in the union?

 

[skydrol]

This peer pressure from the "shop stewards" would be a good thing if?
1. The shop steward position was a position of respect from their peers.
2.The current buddy system was dismantled and everyone was rotated throught the good and bad jobs.
3.The slugs the union has been protecting forever were dealt with without getting a honerable man to rat.(everyone knows who they are)

In reality this program will work like this.
1. Hitters do more or your fired
2.Well you cannot count on the slugs they will not work so hitters work harder.
3.Company and Union demanding honest men to identify the slugs.
4. The company and so called union reps already know and have known who the slugs are but are looking for a scapegoat to rat so they can say "well we had to act because so and so said"

If this so called uion is going to lead then do so, what is so hard about that?

 

[Chuck Schalk]

Tulsa will continue to be abused until they submit to the same work conditions as third party labor. Tulsa deserves what they get, they keep electing the same morons in office. As long as the wal-mart option hangs over the heads of Tulsa they will complain but inevidibly comply. Unionism is dead and so is our careers for the long haul. I have always tried to see some positive things for our future but I am out of options. We are at the point of either accept what they give you, go back to school and leave, or rebel against all who stand in your way. The last one has been a long time coming and I don't see any union wanting to fight for it's members. Any moveement must come from the members. The TWU has settled into the company union mentality. How can they fight their friends?
We are our own worst enemies and we allow them to run our lives.

 

[TWU informer]

The problem in Tulsa currently appears that there is nobody stepping forward that wants to spend $15,000+ of their own funds, and next year's paid time off, to save all the bubba's from themselves.

It seems most AMFA supporters are not afraid of the future, and feel that their skill and experience will allow them to survive beyond AA Overhaul. Most are already working on avenues to leave the industry anyway.

In other words, let the Bubba's have their company union.

I personally could care less about taking on 1000's of A&P scabs in the industry, the AFL-CIO, the National Mediation Board, American Airlines Management, and a large group of company suckasses to advance or save the biggest bunch of cowards ever witnessed wearing union logos.

You guys on the line should buy your time, overhaul will be seperated from the line, and you will be fine. Let the Tulsa Bubba's have exactly what they wished for, and watch the whining and whimpering when the #### hits the fan.

One day AA Management will wake up and find that remaining in heavy overhaul with a bunch of Bubba's with rings in their noses whom only work in this industry because their fathers retired from AA is not the quality, skill, and safe maintenance they had hoped for. There have already been recent examples of what is to come.

Sleep well Line Maintenance, you will have the seperate contract and payscale you deserve and the Bubba's will still be fishing and hunting making less than they make today. But not worry, "They will be lucky to have a job brother".

Good Luck

 

[UAL_TECH]

This peer pressure from the "shop stewards" would be a good thing if?
1. The shop steward position was a position of respect from their peers.
2.The current buddy system was dismantled and everyone was rotated throught the good and bad jobs.
3.The slugs the union has been protecting forever were dealt with without getting a honerable man to rat.(everyone knows who they are)

In reality this program will work like this.
1. Hitters do more or your fired
2.Well you cannot count on the slugs they will not work so hitters work harder.
3.Company and Union demanding honest men to identify the slugs.
4. The company and so called union reps already know and have known who the slugs are but are looking for a scapegoat to rat so they can say "well we had to act because so and so said"

If this so called uion is going to lead then do so, what is so hard about that?

Very good synopsis of the industry (at least from a UAL perspective).
AMFA tried to start a 360 degree feedback program involving only AMFA members and their peers. This was to include (but not limited to) one-on-one discussions, training issues, personal life issues, and EAP help if necessary.

However, IMHO, it will always be shut down as the people that it would possibly ‘motivate’ instead of ‘shield’
have become the most active vocal members against it’s implementation.

The ‘go to guys’ will continue to take the heat for the slackers/marginal employee as the slackers/marginal employee will attend Union meetings and make their voice the loudest while the ‘heavy hitters’ go to work everyday doing their best. From ‘my perspective’ most of the ‘hitters’ have so many irons in the fire (with work/family/etc…) that they simply do not take the time nor have the inclination to make a stand against stupidity as they perceive that their performance will stand on their own merit.

Sadly, they do not understand the ‘politics’ of the squeaky wheel.

Take Care,
B) UT

 

[proAMT]

I have trouble believing that people honestly defend the idea of a shop steward performing supervisory duties.
A crew chief would be an understandable authority figure when it comes to flushing out a slug that spends too much time in the breakroom. The workers answer to the crew chief. A supervisor would be an understandable figure to flush a slug out of the breakroom but the crew chief would be the better choice. A supervisor might not see the whole picture. Perhaps the worker arrived on break late or perhaps the worker is waiting on another task to occur or a tool to arrive before he can perform the required maintenance or test. Even a person's coworker's would be a better choice when it comes to flushing a slug out of the breakroom than a shop steward. After all they must pull the extra weight of the non-performer.
The very LAST person that should be involved in performing this supervisory duty is the shop steward. He his paid to stand up for union members and doesn't have to answer to the man if the job isn't done-a crew chief does. Most stewards don't even know the circumstances as to why the person is not on the plane. For a steward to act as a representative of the company while he has been elected to be a representative of the worker is about as wrong as a union man can be. This person is selling the worker out. A steward that does this deserves the grief he will receive from his fellow workers and his a$$ needs to be kicked out off his union position during the next steward election or sooner if possible.
This issue is not even debatable. Tulsa workers don't put up with this #### from some company stooge parading as a union man.
These guys got to go! Fire their a$$es!

Make the union answer to you!

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

Let me pose a question to all you AMT's ??

(Having never been a mechanic, or never worked at TUL, or JFK, I can't speak from experience)

Having said that,
WHAT is in the "water" in a place like TUL, that seems to "breed" this kind of DESPICABLE ####, ...That would "never get off the ground", in a station like(for example's).....JFK or... LGA,EWR..or..BOS ??????

All answers Accepted

NH/BB's

 

[MCI transplant]

The problem in Tulsa currently appears that there is nobody stepping forward that wants to spend $15,000+ of their own funds, and next year's paid time off, to save all the bubba's from themselves.

It seems most AMFA supporters are not afraid of the future, and feel that their skill and experience will allow them to survive beyond AA Overhaul. Most are already working on avenues to leave the industry anyway.

In other words, let the Bubba's have their company union.

I personally could care less about taking on 1000's of A&P scabs in the industry, the AFL-CIO, the National Mediation Board, American Airlines Management, and a large group of company suckasses to advance or save the biggest bunch of cowards ever witnessed wearing union logos.

You guys on the line should buy your time, overhaul will be seperated from the line, and you will be fine. Let the Tulsa Bubba's have exactly what they wished for, and watch the whining and whimpering when the #### hits the fan.

One day AA Management will wake up and find that remaining in heavy overhaul with a bunch of Bubba's with rings in their noses whom only work in this industry because their fathers retired from AA is not the quality, skill, and safe maintenance they had hoped for. There have already been recent examples of what is to come.

Sleep well Line Maintenance, you will have the seperate contract and payscale you deserve and the Bubba's will still be fishing and hunting making less than they make today. But not worry, "They will be lucky to have a job brother".

Good Luck

<_< ---- Great speech informer! Your probably right on 90% of what your saying! But, if heavy maintenance is spoon off, the line work will be farmed out also!----

 

[Wretched Wrench]

Let me pose a question to all you AMT's ??

(Having never been a mechanic, or never worked at TUL, or JFK, I can't speak from experience)

Having said that,
WHAT is in the "water" in a place like TUL, that seems to "breed" this kind of DESPICABLE ####, ...That would "never get off the ground", in a station like(for example's).....JFK or... LGA,EWR..or..BOS ??????

All answers Accepted

NH/BB's

You are asking on a treatise on cultural anthropology. There are still regional differences in our country. It's not just cultural. It includes, religion, immigration patterns, the economy way back, the Civil War, and so forth. Blue state/red state, etc. Wedge issues, Karl Rove, the whole Megillah.

I have co-workers who have spent time in Tulsa and come back stunned and glassy-eyed. Even decades later, they are still shaking their heads. I have only been there for training, meetings and social visits, so no deep personal insights, but it is like much of the South.

 

[Bill]

Proamt, while I understand your quarry, I believe you have mis- construed the position of the shop steward. I have not heard what you heard. To take a step back for a moment, my understanding, and correct me if I'm wrong, is that the purpose, or one of them, of the shop steward is to be the middle man, if you will, between the union member and the company, to help protect them. I think everyone here knows that. With that being said the SS has not been given NEW authority to do anything. I believe the goal is for the SS to take a bigger "leadership" role NOT to be a hall monitor. So, in reality the SS has been given MORE authority to help the union member as opposed to NEW authority that would turn him into a "tattle-tale", as my kid would say.



On a side note....of the shop stewards you know....how many do you think would become what you are claiming is happening?? Just curious. I don't know too many.

 

[Bill]

While I respect your opinion NHBB, please define "despicable sh*t". The way I see it, is that what is being done is working, working to save your job and thousands of others. It is working to increase revenue so that when it comes contract time there will be something there to get back. It is working to return folks to their status, working to recall folks which is happening right now! There is a lot of griping and complaining that is done on these boards but I have NEVER once read of another solution. Tell me, and anyone else can chime in, what would you do? What would you do to improve our chances of getting anything back? What would your strategy be? How would you handle things if you were in a TWU leadership role, on a local level not internat'l? I am not being a smart ass, but simply posing a question to whomever wants to answer. It's very easy to complain about things but doing something about it is a whole different story.

Let me pose a question to all you AMT's ??

(Having never been a mechanic, or never worked at TUL, or JFK, I can't speak from experience)

Having said that,
WHAT is in the "water" in a place like TUL, that seems to "breed" this kind of DESPICABLE ####, ...That would "never get off the ground", in a station like(for example's).....JFK or... LGA,EWR..or..BOS ??????

All answers Accepted

NH/BB's

 

[Hackman]

Let me pose a question to all you AMT's ??

(Having never been a mechanic, or never worked at TUL, or JFK, I can't speak from experience)

Having said that,
WHAT is in the "water" in a place like TUL, that seems to "breed" this kind of DESPICABLE ####, ...That would "never get off the ground", in a station like(for example's).....JFK or... LGA,EWR..or..BOS ??????

All answers Accepted

NH/BB's

NH/BB, if you want to get a handle on what reason a company like AA would move from a large union city like NYC to a southern city like Tulsa, rent and watch the old movie classic, "The Grapes of Wrath". This movie will explain most of your "what is in the water" query.

There are many fine people in Tulsa, and I lived there for several years and one of my best friends is from outside of Tulsa. However, many are also easily manipulated by being told they are lucky to have a job, and in Tulsa, AA is about the top tier. If AA closed TULE, the city would dry up and blow away. AA is the supreme command in Tulsa, they get whatever they want. Most Tulsa natives have never lived anywhere else, so they don't know anything different, and don't like any changes to the status quo.

Delta has the same "lucky to have a job" mentality in non-union Atlanta Ga. and so did NWA with their Atlanta base. The non-union south is why many companies pull up stakes from the North and East/West coasts to move to the south. A cheaper more gullable workforce is main the reason.

 

[MCI transplant]

<_< -----Let's cut through all the B.S. Now my question is "WHO" gave the shop stewarts this authority?---- The company? Or the Union? Because it had to come from somewhere! Who are the Stewarts suposed to represent? The membership? Or the Company? Because they can't do both! This is basic stuff people!!!!! The simple fact is, it's not a stewards job to enforce work rules!!!! So if the stewards are doing a supervisors job, let's get reed of a few supervisors!!!! I know that would go over big!!!

 

[eolesen]

If AA closed TULE, the city would dry up and blow away. AA is the supreme command in Tulsa, they get whatever they want. Most Tulsa natives have never lived anywhere else, so they don't know anything different, and don't like any changes to the status quo.

True to a point, but AA sees itself being more important to the TUL economy than it really is.

Tulsa would feel the hit, but Owasso, Broken Arrow, and Claremore would be clearly be devastated if TULE were closed. If I recall, there are 1000 employees or more in each of those communities, and about 2000 who live within Tulsa's city limits.

But the census and economic data disagrees somewhat with the doom and gloom proclaimations. AA only accounts for slightly less than 3% of the non-farm payroll in Tulsa County. If you include portions of Rogers, Creek, Wagoner, and Osage Counties, that falls to about 2.5% of non-farm payroll.

An impact? Certainly. Dry up and blow away? I doubt it.