Seigel says wants to get new "quick" agreement with Mechanics

[chipmunn]

Joesy:

The TPG MOU and CSFB & BOA DIP financing agreements require target concessions to get the $500 million funding. The same thing holds true for the $1.2 billion ATSB federal loan guarantee and TPG emergence financing.

Every labor group and the MSP understand this, except apparently the CWA & IAM-M. There are no options, either agreements are negotiated voluntarily or imposed, otherwise there will be no money to emerge.

Simply put, without meeting the requirements of the outside investors there will be no formal reorganization or emergence restructuring financing and the company will suspend operations. The suspension will lead to the liquidation to pay all assets, which is the number one concern of the 13-member creditors committee, who do not give a damn what the employees think. They're not concerned about 36,000 active and 11,000 furloughed employees or their families.

The company has very little latitude and must meet the target numbers per the agreements signed with TPG, CSFB, BOA, & the ATSB.

Chip

 

[pitguy]

Well then you must know that mechanics make substantial investments in tooling and education then. Most have moved several times around the country for jobs. Most are very employable if this place shuts down. Some people feel that most pilots can hardly make any cash if they are not ripping off some airline for an inflated fat paycheck. But since you are obviously so educated I am sure you will make more money than here. Please do not let us hold you back. Good luck with your future endeavors. Oh darn I just cut myself. I hope a scab does not appear.

 

[pitguy]

It appears that some pilot types that are quick to throw in their opinions in the maintenance, ramp and reservations message boards should look in the mirror. Allot of other employees feel they still make too much for to little productivity and that is one of this airlines troubles. Not to mention how obnoxious they can appear. "Mother always said to mind your own business".

 

[A320 Driver]

Yes that green eyed monster grabs a lot of non-pilots by the throat. While they were throwing back the suds, we were getting an education and shaping our careers. Most of you would like to dump the total payroll in a big barrel and everyone in the company pull out an equal portion on payday. That's been tried. I think it's called "redistribution of the wealth". It's a socialistic concept that's been making the rounds since Marx took over the Soviet Union...WHAT??? There is no Soviet Union???
Well, there won't be a USAirways either if you don't wake up and smell the court proceedings. Stop whining about what pilots make.

 

[N305AS]

I've said it before and I'll say it again...any former Eastern Airlines mechanic will be the first to tell you that a moral victory isn't useful for paying the mortgage or buying groceries. The IAM needs to stop this insane bickering and live to fight another day.

 

[pitguy]

My impression from the IAM was they wanted us to take that deal. Allot of people do not trust them anymore. You should familiarize yourself with the agreement and you could easily see it was not fair. That is why it was voted down. Remember it was a take it or leave it offer which we were told it would be up to a judge if we voted it down, and we said "no". By the way all ex eastern guys I know voted "no" also.

 

[chipmunn]

US Airways and its employees are in a difficult situation, but for those who desire to obtain "full pay until the last day", if you're that dissatisfied with the Company maybe you should quit. Why be angry at work?

There are thousands of employees who want to work here and 90,000 furloughed airline employees who would love to come to this Company.

Wouldn't it be best to quit? At least 43 percent of the IAM-M who voted believe the TA was worth it.

Chip

 

[pitguy]

Chip. It was not a T/A. It was a forced take it or leave it contract. I welcome a T/A.

 

[*Athena*]

"While they were throwing back the suds, we were getting an education and shaping our careers." quote a320driver

***************************************************************
Hang on there...A320, Get you head out of the clouds. Alot of us have a 4 year college education and/or degrees, and yes "hours" of experience. Just because you are a pilot don't look down at the rest of us. I'm tired of (some not all) pilots coming on here and thinking their the only ones with an education and the only ones worth anything. Learn some respect.

 

[sabre]

Chip, ALas I agree with you! Yes a liquidation is in order if the mechanics can't reach a fair deal.
But the financial institutions put out "target" concessions...which is just that. I doubt that there is no movement on the targets. Realistically, the targets were actually set by ALPA in what I would call predatory negottiations.

When alpa went 85% of target it demanded all others do. So that if this thing liquidates then therefore it would be ALPA's fault in our minds.

BTW Chip, If the CWA attorneys don't know everything you preach then maybe you should call the CWA up for a job!

 

[Dark Wrench]

----------------
On 8/29/2002 1147 PM

US Airways and its employees are in a difficult situation, but for those who desire to obtain "full pay until the last day", if you're that dissatisfied with the Company maybe you should quit. Why be angry at work?

There are thousands of employees who want to work here and 90,000 furloughed airline employees who would love to come to this Company.

Wouldn't it be best to quit? At least 43 percent of the IAM-M who voted believe the TA was worth it.

Chip
----------------

No its not best to quit.
If 57% were to quit that would leave the 43% here to accept concessions, and thus drive wages and benefits down through out the industry.
Why should i help my next employer pay me less?

 

[chipmunn]

Joesy:

Joesy said: But the financial institutions put ut "target" concessions...which is just that.

Chip comments: Joesy, it is my understanding the amount of total employee givebacks were part of the equation to generate a 7 percent profit margin required by the ATSB to meet OMB guidelines to obtain the loan guarantee. Can you tell me what financial institutions you are refereeing to? I might have missed something.

Joesy said: I doubt that there is no movement on the targets.

Chip comments: Agreed.

Joesy comments: Realistically, the targets were actually set by ALPA in what I would call predatory negottiations.

Chip asks: How do you know that? ALPA was not the first group to reach a voluntary restructuring agreement.

Joesy said: When alpa went 85% of target it demanded all others do.

Chip comments: Joesy that’s not my understanding of the events. Could you give us your source? I must have missed this point.

Joesy said: So that if this thing liquidates then therefore it would be ALPA's fault in our minds.

Chip comments: The pilot group makes up 10 percent of the workforce, 30 percent of the labor expense, and provided 60 percent of the concessions. The pilot group giveback is greater than any other stakeholder for 10 percent of the employees. What are the pilots fair share, 70, 80, or 90 percent of the concession, so you do not have to take more in a socialized system? Can you explain to me how the ALPA giveback, the greatest in the history of commercial aviation, would be the cause of liquidation?

Chip

 

[chipmunn]

DAr WRench:

Dark Wrench said: Why should i help my next employer pay me less?

Chip answers: Dark, the odds indicate if this airline fails your next job will not be at a major airline. Every airline has AMT's unemployed, AMR & UAL just announced a 9 percent reduction in ASM's with furloughs likely, CAL announced another 4 percent cut in capacity, and airlien furloughs will likely exceed over 100,000 people. Where do you intend to go to make the money and have the benefits you do know?

Voting no because some members do not like their representatives is not the arena to make union change. How can this be accomplished with the airline out of business?

Chip

 

[Hope777]

No the deals were not fair nor equitable. The problem is that our Pilot group(chip included) has no respect for any of the other employees of our company. It is all about them. Now that THEY have their contracts worked out and still have their nice pensions, they want to tell every other group what to do. Chip, why do guys still refuse to shut down the NO2 on a 737 when its at the gate? PAY !!! You guys need to stay in you high chairs on the aircraft and keep your nose out of our business. Just plain feed up with all the BS.[:knockout:]

 

[UAL777flyer]

The agreement wasn't fair? Who said any of this mess was fair to any of you? It isn't. It's blatantly unfair to all involved. But this is what the situation has come to. This is what happens when decades go by without addressing the underlying problems of a company. So the fact that the agreement is unfair is probably not important because no matter what agreement is reached, it's going to be grossly unfair. But that's what is necessary to fix this company. So it basically comes down to this: take an agreement that's extremely painful and will hurt and live to fight another day and hopefully turn the company around, or fight them every step of the way and put the company out of business for good.