Rio Flt 800 fumes

[SparrowHawk]

You aren't serious with that statement, are you? You've been one of the jerks pounding away at USAPA for their safety campaign, and you have the incredible hypocritical gall to say it's "time for someone to take a stand." WTF!

I'm not sure how to respond. Taking a "stand" that has the potential to bankrupt your union & some of its members in my mind isn't very astute.

With AFA and cabin fumes there is a paper trail that is pretty long and extends over 2 years complete with tail numbers. There are aircraft out there with multiple incidents of toxic fumes. You'll also note that to date AFA has not been sued and are allegedly close to a deal.

I'm not a giant fan of a UA "Summer of Hell" type job action and the safety campaign seems to fall along those lines. As a customer, when I buy a ticket I frankly don't have any desire to be tossed into a labor management dispute. You'll also note that I say very little regarding DOH or NIC and the reason is I don't know enough about the underlying issues to comment on who if anyone is right and secondly it's really none of my business. I would like to see all of the pilots get a serious bump in wages to at least what Spirit pays.

The problem as I see it now is that as a union you've chosen the path of litigation and all of the time and money that path consumes. debating the wisdom of that path is of no value. Once you go down the legal/litigation path you're kind of stuck there until everything sorts itself out. Assuming for a second that every single solitary ruling from this day forward goes in USAPA's favor and you get DOH, the whole nine yards. What exactly have you won if you're 8-9 years post merger????

 

[NoYellowNeck]

Were you a gymnast Sparrow? You are balancing on the fence like a g-damn champion!

Just when I think you've fallen to one side, you regain your balance.

Bravo!!!

Oh, I've adjusted my avatar and made some slight mods. Please take your time and find the three changes I've made.

 

[Glucose Intolerant]

Stepping back from the pi78ing contest to the original topic,

Does anyone know if US had a ground handling and maintenance contractor in BSB? Is part of the problem in the slow response that US was not prepared for a diversion there? There have been more than one diversion in aviation history that has gone bad really fast because there has not been appropriate ground support when a mechanical arose.... or was the issue even that US flight control/mgmt was not willing to allow the Capt. to say that the flight was cancelled and would have to be unloaded?
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I am well aware that Brazil can be a very bureaucratic country but if Brazilian authorities (ANAC - over customer service - similar to the old CAB in the US, Infraero - operator of Brazilian airports, and ATC/ground control) knew that the flight was cancelled it would seem they could have at last brought it to a hardstand and gotten power put on the plane.
I have seen int'l diversions where you were not allowed to deplane to avoid intermingling with scheduled flights that were in customers, but Brazil also has some pretty strict customer service regulations regarding delays and IROPS - much more like Europe's rules than the US' - and I would find it hard to believe that they simply would not allow any help if US was prepared to provide that - lav support, water.
If Brazil did not provide that support and US had contractors that were ready to help, I think US mgmt should be talking to US officials as to how they can file a complaint with Brazil over the incident, knowing full well that US has had it share of problems w/ Brazilian officials in recent months.
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If nothing else, Brazil's infamous policy of "reciprocity" in dealing with the US might come to bite them in the backside the next time TAM has a problem on the ground in the US.

US Airways has no "handlers" in BSB because we offer no scheduled service to BSB.
The same handlers that US uses in GIG (SAEair) has an office and people in BSB. The GIG station manager came to BSB to coordinate and facilitate their services. Delta Tech Ops (whether contracted or not) came to the crew's rescue and assisted immeasurably. The TAM ground personnel did so as well once the flight finally got to a gate (in re-booking and accommodating passenger's needs) - but they are also part of the Star Alliance.

Regarding the response by Brazilian officials and possibly filing a complaint.....Good luck. We will be lucky if Parker even knows these two incidents happened - and if he does, Tempe will spin it as labor unrest or some other BS.

Although it was an unfortunate chain of events in BSB, it was also an off line airport with a non-normal event. The incident in BSB probably could have been handled better, but it also could have ended much worse. For for that we should be thankful.

IMHO regardless of what company YOU represent, or what country YOUR from, you eventually end up reaping what somebody else has sown.

Brazilians never needed a travel visa to come to the US - nor did Americans going to Brazil, it was reciprocal.
Then the US decided to start charging fees and requiring visas for travel to the US. Guess what? Now so does the Brazilian government for US citizens traveling to Brazil. Pot meet Kettle.
Be it in Politics or in Business - you reap what you sow.

Another event over the weekend landed another US flight (MAD flight diverted to BOS with the same aircraft) at on US on-line city, but ironically from initial reports the crew experienced the exact same problems as experienced by the BSB crew (although not nearly as bad).

WHY?

It doesn't matter because it was all a hoax and faked simply to perpetuate an ongoing alleged work action over SAFETY - so it doesn't really matter.

 

[WorldTraveler]

thanks for the info, Glucose.
If the intent is to run a p-poor operation and cut every corner possible and then blame it on labor, then nothing is going to help. The fact that a similar experience occurred at an online station says your theory might be the case. In that case, then perhaps having some passengers - in addition to crew members - raise a stink w/ legislators might demonstrate your point.
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There are airlines that have pre-arranged backup ground handling and maintenance contracts even at offline stations - in case there are diversions.
Again, I'm not sure if that was a factor or not - but sitting on a hot airplane w/ no power and lavs is not the time to be looking through the phone list for people who MIGHT help.
Do US int'l captains - which I guess happens elsewhere in the industry - have a credit card they can use should they encounter unplanned expenses at an offline station?
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yes, there is probably truth to the fact that reciprocity comes back to bite you - and the visa example is valid. But if Brazil has passenger rights laws for airlines and they violated in the US case, then I think there are reasons to complain - again, if there is a desire to do so by mgmt.
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Whatever the case, I wish the US family well in the months ahead... there is an aweful lot of labor unrest in the US industry and I fear that at least some of it is going to turn nasty - to the detriment of all involved.
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I also don't see any evidence from airline history that doing actions to hurt bookings ultimately helps labor.... as much as you and I wish there were mechanisms to address the types of issues you raise.
I wish you all the best...

 

[SparrowHawk]

Flt 1071 PHL-SJU (300-200) diverted to PHL this afternoon @12:15pm. There was odor in the cabin causing headaches for crew members. The aircraft is currently off-line.

 

[700UW]

Copied and pasted I see.

And a flight doesnt divert to it's origin, that would be a return to field.

 

[SparrowHawk]

Copied and pasted I see.

And a flight doesnt divert to it's origin, that would be a return to field.

Dam Skippy, I copied it right out of my inbox about 30 seconds after it arrived. I did notice the divert being the departing airport. The source is a Flight Attendant and they have been reliable in the past so no need to doubt the veracity of the source. so we'll forgive them for improper terminology

 

[luvn737s]

For those who have been here long enough to remember the Franke days, you know that parts, maintenance and spares has improved tremendously in the past 8-10 years. APU MELs are much lower this summer than in summers past, just as one example.

US has received numerous FAA Safety and Maintenance awards in the recent past. The maintenance issues in the distant past were largely documentation issues rather than safety.

The FAA launched its budget-balancing system of unrealistically high fines with AWA and moved on to AA and others. Now, even GA pilots can expect to be fined outrageous sums, as the FAA has discovered a gold mine in the wallets of aircraft operators. but I digress.

The outside contractors are the same one's used by Southwest, Delta and others, and they are not screaming about an unsafe operation.

If safety was such a glaring problem, why hasn't the west side of the operation suffered similarly? Does any rational person really think the west are such "company people" that they would fly a smoke filled cabin across the country and back (they never have, just in case there's an easty ready to pounce) and ask the passengers over the PA to "just keep this our little secret"? Heck if Southwest had a smoke-filled cabin, they'd serve Texas Barbecue!

C'mon folks let's get some answers. Airplanes occasionally have problems, some of them big, but the evidence of a systemic problem just isn't as overwhelming as the east and their cheerleaders would have everyone believe.

And frankly, I'm sick of being embarrassed by association.

 

[nycbusdriver]

If safety was such a glaring problem, why hasn't the west side of the operation suffered similarly? Does any rational person really think the west are such "company people" that they would fly a smoke filled cabin across the country and back (they never have, just in case there's an easty ready to pounce) and ask the passengers over the PA to "just keep this our little secret"? Heck if Southwest had a smoke-filled cabin, they'd serve Texas Barbecue!

My gut tells me to respond by saying that west crews would definitely fly that smoke filled airplane across country if it meant that USAPA's safety campaign might be further demonized.

But the truth is, how many Boeing 767s and Airbus A330s does the west operate? It seems like the fumes events are particular to the airplanes that fly transatlantic day in and day out. Maybe that's a clue.

But please give us your expertise on the operation of all those B767s and A330s as regards to smoke/fume events. Don't hold back simply because you don't like USAPA.

 

[luvthe9]

Luv this video of our west friends. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZqeA32Em2s&feature=player_embedded

 

[cltrat]

My gut tells me to respond by saying that west crews would definitely fly that smoke filled airplane across country if it meant that USAPA's safety campaign might be further demonized.

But the truth is, how many Boeing 767s and Airbus A330s does the west operate? It seems like the fumes events are particular to the airplanes that fly transatlantic day in and day out. Maybe that's a clue.

But please give us your expertise on the operation of all those B767s and A330s as regards to smoke/fume events. Don't hold back simply because you don't like USAPA.

I wondered when some one would mention most west pilots have not sniffed\ the inside of a 767 or a 330 unless they non rev on one 🙄 🙄

 

[luvn737s]

In almost 30 years of flying (aw, jeeze it's more than that!), I haven't come across an A/C Pack that is significantly different from any other in function. But remember, this is Parkers conspiracy to force the poor victims of LOA93 to fly these crates held together with bailing..., ah it's not worth the effort.

NYC, are you down to playing the Bermuda Triangle Card now????

 

[nycbusdriver]

Luv this video of our west friends. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZqeA32Em2s&feature=player_embedded

Gee. I wonder if they wrote that incident up? Probably not, since all the smoke and fume events are happening on east aircraft only.

 

[luvn737s]

How do you know it was a USAirways flight? If it says so on the internet, it must be true, eh? Proof that this video was actually of the flight it says it is?

Did the smoke magically dissipate before landing leaving no trace and no ill passengers, as in the flight from Spain?

Quick question - When you divert a whole plane load of passengers to support some ill-conceived safety campaign, do you have to make up the time, or do these guys pulling this crap take a pay hit in addition to jeopardizing their jobs for Cleary.

 

[Iclubbabyseals]

US has received numerous FAA Safety and Maintenance awards in the recent past. The maintenance issues in the distant past were largely documentation issues rather than safety.

Try not to confuse US with HP. US wins awards with actual competitors. HP only won awards they awarded themselves. Big diff.

The FAA launched its budget-balancing system of unrealistically high fines with AWA and moved on to AA and others. Now, even GA pilots can expect to be fined outrageous sums, as the FAA has discovered a gold mine in the wallets of aircraft operators. but I digress.

Yes, you digress in your own fantasies. Funny, no one else claims so. Just the losers.

The outside contractors are the same one's used by Southwest, Delta and others, and they are not screaming about an unsafe operation.

Yes, and that relevant how? Each airline contracts for a certain level of service and how scheduled mx is to be complied with. AWA seems to get the "best" rates to the expense of substandard results. Not inspecting fasteners in the 330 dry areas was an option rarely skipped in the contracts, but, for which AWA thought they could ignore. The level of "safety" is set by the airline, not the outside contractor.

Tricky, your play on readers ignorance about the process. Disgusting.

C'mon folks let's get some answers. Airplanes occasionally have problems, some of them big, but the evidence of a systemic problem just isn't as overwhelming as the east and their cheerleaders would have everyone believe.

Don't know what you mean by "overwhelming", but, I understand the Pentagon has grounded their entire F-22 fleet for the same thing. Even one pilot losing their medical because of this is too much. The east has several pilots grounded not to mention two flight attendants still in the hospital, one died and many off line.

The fact that "upper" mgt has chosen to make a serious safety issue a negotiating ploy shows 1) they have no idea that their mx is unsafe 2) they are way too willing to grab an opportunity to play off safety to sway a judge and 3) they misjudged this one, their cretinous and (apparently drunken), assertions only helped to solidify east pilots resolve.

And frankly, I'm sick of being embarrassed by association.

and so is the east. Far better for the east to take their time back and both groups to go their separate ways. and, by all means, take the upper management staff with the west. I would think a management group at a local MacDonalds could do better. and be -much- cheaper.

WWWD