resignations for council

[hp_fa]

You want to roll the dice? Fine, T., you have nothing to lose, but what about the rest of the FAs in PHL?

TG did not have to resign. She could have stayed in place and let the recall continue. She chose to quit, perhaps with the idea of running again but no matter how you cut it she quit.

Based on what I have seen on this board, I am not a fan of TG. If LA and TG are the best that PHL has to offer, with PHL being the largest FA base, then LCC's AFA members are in deep doo-doo (especially with that idiot of a MECP).

 

[beachboy]

hp
You can't replace 30 years of experiance with a bunch of new comers. TG is the best and if I ever had to ask for union representation it would be her.She fights and really has our interests at heart. I will vote for her in a heartbeat. If LA is playing a game of chicken she just lost because Terry will win again and I will be glad to have her as my rep. LA hung up on my twice and was nothing short of worthless! Why don't you take the time to talk with TG and call her because I am sure your view will be differant. I want new people in as well but I want Terry to train them and pass along the knowlage she has on the system.

 

[PITbull]

Simply stated, while sounding good, it seems silly. It sounds like, well, let's try this cookie cutter a different way, into the same dough.

You make it sound like she is uncontaminated, yet, you proffer credentials that are no different than anyone else.

Just because someone is "unknown" matters not whether that person is competant or will bring about change, as you suggest. While I commend your attempts at "opening doors" to unknowns, perhaps the way to break the ugly cycle we seem to have bought into, perhaps we should temper those with _real_ motivations to do good with new individuals.

I am biased, but I know that TG has always maintained, within the limits imposed by her "bosses", a mentoring program, something I have never seen elsewhere at USAirways. That, in itself, is something worth preserving. It provides an incentive to think globally rather than just for oneself. It is darn hard and there are pitfalls. But, correctable mistakes should be tolerated, if learning occurs, something I have yet to see at this company. It is that lack that helps debase our workplace to the sewer it currently resides.

There is another problem. It is too easy for a novice to buy into the inclusiveness sold by management, or even their own union. It takes someone who can tell mgmt or the union to f*off, even when you feel you might be alone. Then it takes a special person that can forge a working relationship afterwards. That takes training and experience.

I'd like nothing better than someone else to "take the reins", but I also know that would be a crap shoot for the FAs of PHL. You may get a great team, but, as I have been around the bend more times than you, I doubt it.

You want to roll the dice? Fine, T., you have nothing to lose, but what about the rest of the FAs in PHL?

Shark,

You make good sense. It takes a special, motivated, indidividual to consume the education, while learning on-the-job. But, I have to say...I had absolutely NO experience, didn't know anyone on the MEC back in 2001. I was motivated by my anger with the union reps and THEIR lack of knowing how to represent our group. Back then, everyone was diqusted, sort of like what is happening in PHL now.

I was not special by any means. Just motivated to change things,and having some core beliefs in the purpose of organized labor. I didn't have a clue what AFA was about, dealing with managment-types. I just didn't fear anyone because I was never that "hungry" for position or power. Sometimes if you stay within the system too long, you become part of that same churning system. Turnover is a good thing and should be inspried and fostered. It did help me, though, having an education in business to better understand corporate finance and management's mind-set, and nursing helped as well specifically with the "sick disciplines" and creating arguments. I do believe a better candidate is one that has some higher education just for better writing and communication skills. I don't believe just by having decades of experience makes one a good rep. After all, some of the "real management lap-dogs" have had years of experience, but still end up as "dogs"; just took years to get rid of them! You know what I mean, you had and have them at ALPA.

There are quite a few really good, talented flight attendants in PHL that I've come across. They just don't know the MEC for the support one would need, and they haven't thought about the broader scope of representation. If you have the desire (as we in PIT did back in 2001 to turn the union in a new direction, demonstrate to managment YOU mean business when you speak, have the ability to organize your thoughts and put them in writing for good communication, have good follow-through skills, stay focused and on point with your issue, or an argument... one can run for these positions. I have found that if you have the ability to convince your peers (who are your biggest supporters), you will develop the skills to convince management and push the MEC toward some novel ideas. The key is good communication with your group.

I am just glad to see the desire by many good folks to run for these positions and hopefully do some good while they are there.

 

[EMBFA]

so explain this again they have to resign a second time for it to really happen?

 

[Itestwell]

TG did not have to resign. She could have stayed in place and let the recall continue. She chose to quit, perhaps with the idea of running again but no matter how you cut it she quit.

Based on what I have seen on this board, I am not a fan of TG. If LA and TG are the best that PHL has to offer, with PHL being the largest FA base, then LCC's AFA members are in deep doo-doo (especially with that idiot of a MECP).

hp,

You are basing your opinion of someone on postings on this board? Seriously? Wow...

TG is a good person. The beauty of her is that she WILL fight for every FA. She will also tell the FA's that abuse the system that they need to shape up. She has a problem with reserves sleeping in their cars and in the crew room, and is passionate about changing that. She has been negotiating and defending for 30 years, and knows her stuff.

Maybe you should hop on a plane, fly to PHL, and meet her. Judging her from a message board is slightly narrow minded..... :blink:

 

[PITbull]

so explain this again they have to resign a second time for it to really happen?

That's what is in the Constitution (for bases who decide to have to split meetings). We didn't conduct two meetings in PIT; just one 6-7 hour scheduled local meetings.

Wonder what happens if the same motion is presented, but a different vote?

Is the entire motion voided as if it never existed? As if during the first meeting that order of business never occured? Which takes precedent the "FOR" by majority on the first meeting, OR the "against" by majority on the second meeting? Or do they combine the votes of both meetings and evaluate THAT outcome?

Crazy.

 

[Itestwell]

Also, I will say again, I hope Celine will consider running!

 

[FlyGuyBWI]

Shark,

You make good sense. It takes a special, motivated, indidividual to consume the education, while learning on-the-job. But, I have to say...I had absolutely NO experience, didn't know anyone on the MEC back in 2001. I was motivated by my anger with the union reps and THEIR lack of knowing how to represent our group. Back then, everyone was diqusted, sort of like what is happening in PHL now.

I was not special by any means. Just motivated to change things,and having some core beliefs in the purpose of organized labor. I didn't have a clue what AFA was about, dealing with managment-types. I just didn't fear anyone because I was never that "hungry" for position or power. Sometimes if you stay within the system too long, you become part of that same churning system. Turnover is a good thing and should be inspried and fostered. It did help me, though, having an education in business to better understand corporate finance and management's mind-set, and nursing helped as well specifically with the "sick disciplines" and creating arguments. I do believe a better candidate is one that has some higher education just for better writing and communication skills. I don't believe just by having decades of experience makes one a good rep. After all, some of the "real management lap-dogs" have had years of experience, but still end up as "dogs"; just took years to get rid of them! You know what I mean, you had and have them at ALPA.

There are quite a few really good, talented flight attendants in PHL that I've come across. They just don't know the MEC for the support one would need, and they haven't thought about the broader scope of representation. If you have the desire (as we in PIT did back in 2001 to turn the union in a new direction, demonstrate to managment YOU mean business when you speak, have the ability to organize your thoughts and put them in writing for good communication, have good follow-through skills, stay focused and on point with your issue, or an argument... one can run for these positions. I have found that if you have the ability to convince your peers (who are your biggest supporters), you will develop the skills to convince management and push the MEC toward some novel ideas. The key is good communication with your group.

I am just glad to see the desire by many good folks to run for these positions and hopefully do some good while they are there.

Well said PIT - same thing happend in BWI about the same time -- all reserve LEC slate was elected. (I miss MetroJet)

Good people can learn the job. I'd rather have a rep with passion learning the ropes, than a disinterested verteran any day.

 

[PITbull]

Well said PIT - same thing happend in BWI about the same time -- all reserve LEC slate was elected. (I miss MetroJet)

Good people can learn the job. I'd rather have a rep with passion learning the ropes, than a disinterested verteran any day.

BWI,

I remember all so well!

 

[Lovethesun]

Good people can learn the job. I'd rather have a rep with passion learning the ropes, than a disinterested verteran any day.

Thank you!!! Could not have said it better. I do believe that while knowledge and experience is a wonderful attribute...so is one being tenacious, having the drive to learn and to have good ethic's. Do believe it is time to make changes for the better of the flight attendants and for our union. There is definitly something to be said for unity. (United we stand divided we fall). TG you state you want what's best for the f/a's so I hope you will be willing to volunteer your time and experience to whomever gets in office. (But I still say CELINE, CELINE, CELINE). She seems to have the tenacity to lead and to represent us.

 

[Career Reserve]

That's what is in the Constitution (for bases who decide to have to split meetings). We didn't conduct two meetings in PIT; just one 6-7 hour scheduled local meetings.

Wonder what happens if the same motion is presented, but a different vote?

Is the entire motion voided as if it never existed? As if during the first meeting that order of business never occured? Which takes precedent the "FOR" by majority on the first meeting, OR the "against" by majority on the second meeting? Or do they combine the votes of both meetings and evaluate THAT outcome?

Crazy.

I guess that will depend on whether the meeting was adjourned or recessed.
LA was not keeping the minutes so those in attendance will have to let those at Nov.6th meeting know.
If anyone at the meeting is questioning any motions or rulings I believe that they can & should ask for a "parliamentarian ruling" on whatever it is (the ruling or motion) and the answer would not come from International President, nor Vp, or even the Sec/Tres. but rather the International parliamentarian who I believe is Mr. Locke.
The meeting would have to stop (I believe) and a ruling given.
LA or MF would have to call for that information during the meeting.

 

[N965VJ]

<SNIP> Sometimes if you stay within the system too long, you become part of that same churning system. Turnover is a good thing and should be inspried and fostered.

How about term limits?

 

[sharktooth]

Shark,

You make good sense. It takes a special, motivated, indidividual to consume the education, while learning on-the-job. But, I have to say...I had absolutely NO experience, didn't know anyone on the MEC back in 2001. I was motivated by my anger with the union reps and THEIR lack of knowing how to represent our group. Back then, everyone was diqusted, sort of like what is happening in PHL now.

I was not special by any means. Just motivated to change things,and having some core beliefs in the purpose of organized labor. I didn't have a clue what AFA was about, dealing with managment-types. I just didn't fear anyone because I was never that "hungry" for position or power. Sometimes if you stay within the system too long, you become part of that same churning system. Turnover is a good thing and should be inspried and fostered. It did help me, though, having an education in business to better understand corporate finance and management's mind-set, and nursing helped as well specifically with the "sick disciplines" and creating arguments. I do believe a better candidate is one that has some higher education just for better writing and communication skills. I don't believe just by having decades of experience makes one a good rep. After all, some of the "real management lap-dogs" have had years of experience, but still end up as "dogs"; just took years to get rid of them! You know what I mean, you had and have them at ALPA.

There are quite a few really good, talented flight attendants in PHL that I've come across. They just don't know the MEC for the support one would need, and they haven't thought about the broader scope of representation. If you have the desire (as we in PIT did back in 2001 to turn the union in a new direction, demonstrate to managment YOU mean business when you speak, have the ability to organize your thoughts and put them in writing for good communication, have good follow-through skills, stay focused and on point with your issue, or an argument... one can run for these positions. I have found that if you have the ability to convince your peers (who are your biggest supporters), you will develop the skills to convince management and push the MEC toward some novel ideas. The key is good communication with your group.

I am just glad to see the desire by many good folks to run for these positions and hopefully do some good while they are there.

I truly believe there are great leaders here. I was shocked when the FAs deflated Butch's pretentiousness in 1995. Sure could not depend on the hopelessly over-rated pilots to do the right thing. Leave it to the grossly undercompensated, IMO, FA to do the right thing.

Until one has been attacked by this management, one has no idea that basically, the union is the only institution left that can lay the situation out, can depict reality and at least get one a voice because our current management certainly cannot.

T, you did the right thing and god bless you. Defining "hopeless", especially when held by seniority is really tough.

I've never really believed this company was truly in trouble. There were never appropriate symptoms. It really did not make sense.

Yet, management got a majority of employees to believe it (those idiots stayed - damn) and we end up with a big chunk of cash that used to go to labor going to "investors". It is simply a giant rip-off and you are one of the few to see that.

Good luck!

 

[PITbull]

I guess that will depend on whether the meeting was adjourned or recessed.
LA was not keeping the minutes so those in attendance will have to let those at Nov.6th meeting know.
If anyone at the meeting is questioning any motions or rulings I believe that they can & should ask for a "parliamentarian ruling" on whatever it is (the ruling or motion) and the answer would not come from International President, nor Vp, or even the Sec/Tres. but rather the International parliamentarian who I believe is Mr. Locke.
The meeting would have to stop (I believe) and a ruling given.
LA or MF would have to call for that information during the meeting.

A member would have to challenge the chair's ruling in order for there to be an interpretation from an International officer. Whatever ruling is given from the International officer, THAT can be challened by an member asking for a ruling from a Parlimentarian.

I truly believe there are great leaders here. I was shocked when the FAs deflated Butch's pretentiousness in 1995. Sure could not depend on the hopelessly over-rated pilots to do the right thing. Leave it to the grossly undercompensated, IMO, FA to do the right thing.

Until one has been attacked by this management, one has no idea that basically, the union is the only institution left that can lay the situation out, can depict reality and at least get one a voice because our current management certainly cannot.

T, you did the right thing and god bless you. Defining "hopeless", especially when held by seniority is really tough.

I've never really believed this company was truly in trouble. There were never appropriate symptoms. It really did not make sense.

Yet, management got a majority of employees to believe it (those idiots stayed - damn) and we end up with a big chunk of cash that used to go to labor going to "investors". It is simply a giant rip-off and you are one of the few to see that.

Good luck!

Thanks, Shark. I never believed the company was really going over the cliff. I believe the company gave the illusion in order to break the unions on the property by threatening the survival of the company. Management's plan and design from the first day of contract discussions in May of 2002 was pension plan elimination, job eliminations, throwing out contracts, replacing them with NO snap backs, and the "ten year (permanent) contract plan". Perhaps some concessions were in order, but not the magnitude of what was taken.

It is evident by the hundreds of millions of $$ that U has made thus far this year with fuel prices between $65-75 a barrel where I believe the company hedged.

None of the other airlines in BK will go under. Its all part of the "Domino Effect" that U started in 2002 and its all about thrusting the airline labor force into a WalMart paradigm, and fostering high turnover where benefits are mostly paid by the employees (if they can afford them).

 

[proudf/a]

There seems to be an awful lot of what if's in this situation. It makes you really wonder how this will all play out. If it comes down to all the elected officals resigning, who would take over for those 90 days until another election?