Really?

[robbedagain]

is that due to who was running the show--Lorenzo vs Stealin? i know its twoo differnt time periods with EAL being 91 and NW being 2005. but almost the same tatics being used?

 

[Spock]

No kidding robbed! Animosity is the natural state between labor and management. It was a state of all out war between NWA management and AMFA- just like the EAL/IAM situation years ago. The difference is the IAM/EAL picket line held solid to the end ensuring an IAM victory over EAL management as to where the AMFA picket line collapsed after only 4 months ensuring a NWA management victory.

Hey, close but no cigar. Let's compare apples to apples. At EAL, the IAM did go out - but let's not forget the pilots walked too! The EAL pilots were true unionists. Can we say that about the APLA & IAM people at NWA? :down:

 

[robbedagain]

Hey, close but no cigar. Let's compare apples to apples. At EAL, the IAM did go out - but let's not forget the pilots walked too! The EAL pilots were true unionists. Can we say that about the APLA & IAM people at NWA? :down:

good point too bad that didnt happen at nwa wonder how old stealing dougie would have handled that

 

[aafsc]

Hey, close but no cigar. Let's compare apples to apples. At EAL, the IAM did go out - but let's not forget the pilots walked too! The EAL pilots were true unionists. Can we say that about the APLA & IAM people at NWA? :down:

Your right, the pilots and F/As did honor the strike at the beginning. However after a while, the pilots got weak in the knees and went back in and the flight attendants followed. EAL was half it's original size at strike time thus making it easier for them to hire pilot and F/A replacements. I can still remember the words of the EAL ALPA MEC president followed by many pilots running back in. What really hurt EAL during the strike was that they had to replace ALL it's AMTs- line and heavy overhaul. They had to cannibalize aircraft for parts because they unable to repair those parts. I can remember about 10 L-10-11s sitting in MIA with all 3 engines missing; what a beautiful sight it was. The also had problems regarding 757 avionics; they had to cannibalize 757s in order to get the working parts. In fact, I knew an avionics AMT who worked mostly on the 757s and EAL management called him and begged him to cross because they were so desperate; he refused to cross.
At NW, they had already farmed out most of heavy mx and laid almost half it's workforce before the strike even began. This made it easier for NW management to replace those who were left. All they basically had to do was get enough A&Ps to staff line mx MSP and DTW.
One more thought on "unionism". During the EAL strike, instead of supporting the strikers, the unions/employees at the other airlines did nothing. In fact, they were salivating at the prospect that their airlines would pick up EALs assets thus ensuring advancement for themselves; especially the pilots. While their EAL brothers were fighting to keep the wages up (it was clear to EAL ALPA that Lorenzo was going to screw them and bring them to CO pilot wages), the pilots at the other carriers were talking about how their careers would benefit from the demise of EAL. DL got some of the L-10-11s and 727s along with many of EAL ATL gates insuring more flying and high paying captain positions. Same with AA regarding the Latin American routes. So while the concept of unionism looks good on paper, nowadays it is no longer practiced; EAL was the last time it was.

 

[aafsc]

Hey, close but no cigar. Let's compare apples to apples. At EAL, the IAM did go out - but let's not forget the pilots walked too! The EAL pilots were true unionists. Can we say that about the APLA & IAM people at NWA? :down:

AMFA claimed that they did not need anybody else; so the other groups going to work was irrelevant. It is clearly documented that they believed their strength was in their skills, not numbers. They believed that by withdrawing their skills (strike) that they would bring NWA to it's knees. The IAM never claimed a "go it alone" mentality.

 

[Hackman]

AMFA claimed that they did not need anybody else; so the other groups going to work was irrelevant. It is clearly documented that they believed their strength was in their skills, not numbers. They believed that by withdrawing their skills (strike) that they would bring NWA to it's knees. The IAM never claimed a "go it alone" mentality.

AMFA never claimed "they wanted to go it alone". If you have proof they stated that (AMFA National) please post it. That's the iam scab union false claim after they lost the AMT's at the former NWA. AMFA simply wanted to organize the AMT's of the industry, and they do believe in strenth in skill. We can all see for ourselves how far the industrial unions "strength in numbers" paper tiger has worked.

 

[Kev3188]

AMFA never claimed "they wanted to go it alone". If you have proof they stated that (AMFA National) please post it.

Hackman--

I will try to to find some official links. In the meantime, you and I both know there was a very vocal contingent of AMFA AMT's who chanted this mantra early and often. I know you used to post on the-mechanic.com; surely you remember seeing it on there?

These were usually the same guys that thought putting IAM stickers in urinals was funny.

Do I think that every AMT thought this way? Absolutely not. The ones in my station were great guys, and the respect was a 2 way street, for example.

It's also imporant to note that many IAM members disagreed with DePace's "scorned lover" position regarding the strike, if for no other reason than to take a "the-enemy-of-my-enemy-is-my-friend" stance.

But to say that the mentality didn't exist (official or not) is incorrect.

.... AMFA simply wanted to organize the AMT's of the industry, and they do believe in strenth in skill. We can all see for ourselves how far the industrial unions "strength in numbers" paper tiger has worked.

No argument here.

 

[Spock]

Your right, the pilots and F/As did honor the strike at the beginning. However after a while, the pilots got weak in the knees and went back in and the flight attendants followed. EAL was half it's original size at strike time thus making it easier for them to hire pilot and F/A replacements. I can still remember the words of the EAL ALPA MEC president followed by many pilots running back in. What really hurt EAL during the strike was that they had to replace ALL it's AMTs- line and heavy overhaul. They had to cannibalize aircraft for parts because they unable to repair those parts. I can remember about 10 L-10-11s sitting in MIA with all 3 engines missing; what a beautiful sight it was. The also had problems regarding 757 avionics; they had to cannibalize 757s in order to get the working parts. In fact, I knew an avionics AMT who worked mostly on the 757s and EAL management called him and begged him to cross because they were so desperate; he refused to cross.
At NW, they had already farmed out most of heavy mx and laid almost half it's workforce before the strike even began. This made it easier for NW management to replace those who were left. All they basically had to do was get enough A&Ps to staff line mx MSP and DTW.
One more thought on "unionism". During the EAL strike, instead of supporting the strikers, the unions/employees at the other airlines did nothing. In fact, they were salivating at the prospect that their airlines would pick up EALs assets thus ensuring advancement for themselves; especially the pilots. While their EAL brothers were fighting to keep the wages up (it was clear to EAL ALPA that Lorenzo was going to screw them and bring them to CO pilot wages), the pilots at the other carriers were talking about how their careers would benefit from the demise of EAL. DL got some of the L-10-11s and 727s along with many of EAL ATL gates insuring more flying and high paying captain positions. Same with AA regarding the Latin American routes. So while the concept of unionism looks good on paper, nowadays it is no longer practiced; EAL was the last time it was.

Yeah, I remember seeing Phil Bakes on a TV news story pleading the pilots to come back. They may have got weak knees and it was the IAM's strike - but they did honor it.

 

[PlayTheOdds]

Yap, yap, yap.... flap, flap, flap.... go the worthless playthecods nonsensical scab gums. You run your mouth like a little f'ing toy poodle who hides behind her mommy's dress when corporate security isn't near by.

WOW! It is so nice to hear from you once again Hackman. What a delightful surprise. Did you come up with the insults all by yourself or did you recruit a second grader to help?

Your right about one thing, my NWA AMFA brothers did have nerve and courage ...

Well it's about time I finally got something right for a change.

You are right about one thing clown, you did not have any business being a bootlicking scab at Dougie's Airline disaster.

ALL RIGHT! I have now been right about two one things in the same night. I must have really been on a role. Sorry buddy but no bootlicking for me. Your compadre, EWF, takes the cake on that one. You know the AA/TWU Scab that you AA guys wish you could sweep under the rug. I have a feeling that he is a very good representation of how you AA guys operate over there.

BTW, how long was the DC-9 engine change??? I rest my case.

Now that is debatable. Are we looking at actual time worked or total time on the job. I will say that it did get a little long but that was simply due to outside forces beyond our control. Particularly the weather and a faulty start valve. Oh yea lets not forget about the AMFA Scabs from the engine shop who were some of the first to cross who got happy with the super duty tape that had to be painstakingly removed before engine start. Who really cares though I was on overtime damn near the whole time.

Let's set one thing straight stupid. I have nothing against honorable competent MRO mechanics. I have MRO AMT friends that are very good at what they do...

Really? I don't recall that being the case Sept. 05.

...You have assisted rogue management in bringing everyone further down in our skill, yourself included ( I do use that "skill" term very loosely for morons like you)...

"rogue management"? That is almost a meaningless term for that is the way all of management is viewed in any large corporation and even in your smaller businesses. NWA was operating in the red and has been doing so for several years. In the event that you do not know, you can operate in the red for only so long before you liquidate. It can be reduced to simple mathematics that you should have learned in grade school. This "rogue management" that you continue to bring up apparently understands this basic set of mathematics and realized that if drastic changes are not made NWA will fold. Unfortunately labor is the highest cost to a company so of course will be the first to feel the impact of cost reductions. I do agree with you that management is overcompensated and does set themselves up very nicely. I do not agree with this but do keep in mind that there is usually a board of directors that agrees to some of these outrageous terms and conditions. NWA was operating in the red and now they are operating in the black, that is good thing for all and if some people have a problem with it they need to find themselves another employer.

You'll never lead any of the "poor MRO contract folks" out of the hole you helped dig. No scab ever will. Not even a little.

Contract pay increased during the strike then took a dip a few months ago but has since recovered. Contract pay varies across the country. There are several places that I will not go because of low wages, it simply isn't worth my time. I have noticed though that pay is a direct reflection of the quality of work an MRO produces.

Now that I've wasted 20 minutes on your disgusting scab carcass again, I will finish with this. If and when any AA job action comes down the pike, (doubt it with the worthless twu) you make sure you speak up as the first dumb*ss fool in the scab line and shout; "I'm the scab PlaytheCooods!!!!!!", "I'm the scab PlaytheCooods!!!!". Real loud so we can hear you. Yeah.....right. :unsure: h34r: :unsure: h34r:

Wasted 20 minutes? I am sure you got a good giggle as you were typing "PlayTheCooods". Yea, at the rate you guys are sucking up concessions with no retaliation at all, I agree that there will never be a job action against AA. Though there always is Wishful thinking.

 

[robbedagain]

as i recall the dc9 engine change was a 2 day thing because of one thing: A LACK OF QUALIFIED MECHANICS. A real mechanic, such as prior to aug 2005, would of had it done in a few hrs or so.

 

[PlayTheOdds]

as i recall the dc9 engine change was a 2 day thing because of one thing: A LACK OF QUALIFIED MECHANICS. A real mechanic, such as prior to aug 2005, would of had it done in a few hrs or so.

robbed, I honestly believe that if you gave a deaf and dumb monkey from some obscure country (like the one you are from) a wrench, screwdriver and the opportunity to pay union dues that you would consider him a "real qualified mechanic".

Can you explain something to me robbed?...Why is it that when I read your posts I always think, "what a dingle berry"? Why is that robbed?

 

[Kev3188]

A better question would be, "why won't this thread die out?"

 

[robbedagain]

good point kev but the answer to pto is pto is the dingle berry

 

[groundcontrol]

robbed, I honestly believe that if you gave a deaf and dumb monkey from some obscure country (like the one you are from) a wrench, screwdriver and the opportunity to pay union dues that you would consider him a "real qualified mechanic".

This union card carrying fella (monkey) you speak about though deaf and dumb still sounds like he has more integrity than a SCAB.