Real Hope & Change - Ron Paul 2012

[Ms Tree]

WHAT?

We are the Government! We elected the racists! We turned a blind eye to the Government atrocities. While your argument may hold water in the late 1800's and early 1900's it sure doesn't today. As to being "Below the blacks" all I can say is when I was in Utah in 1974 I saw a sign on the door of a small store that said "No Dogs or Indians allowed in this place of business". Draw your own conclusions on that one.

Since truce and treaty the American Indian has received more government aid on a per capita basis then any other group protected or otherwise. Even with the Casino's and bingo parlors life has not improved at a great many reservations. Having had the opportunity to drive through Pine Ridge you see the end result of total dependence of Government hand outs, Unemployment is the 40% range, Violent crime through the roof, A Fetal Alcohol Syndrome birth rate on about 35% which is one of the leading causes of the above mentioned violence and staggering suicide rate. Then to top it all off you have a Tribal Council that is responsible for handing out the handouts and the corruption there is rampant to the point where the Rez Police do whatever they please. To get a good job you often have to bribe the council.

WHY? Because of Government intrusion into the day to day affairs of the individual Indian. Through the BIA and IHS the government have driven many proud tribes to their knees. NO, The American Indian has had just about all the Government they can tolerate as a people.

I think that is a simplistic view. Yes we are the government. Yes we voted in racists to government. Yes we sat by as the Natives were slaughtered and abused in countless ways. How ever to place the blame on 'government' ignores the fact that it would have happened with any form of government or with no government at all. Our existence is what ruined the Native way of life. Nearly all the tribes were migratory. They did not own land. Natives view them selves as part of the earth and all that is on it. They do not see themselves as a mater of it as we do. The natives and the white man could never co-exists as equals. We raped and pillaged the land. We stole and destroyed their mean of existence.

The government actions after the fact were merely the icing on the cake. Placing them on reservations, banning their religious practices, confining them to parcels of land that were not fertile were things that sealed their fate, not what initiated it. The current Native government structures are inventions of the white man that are trying to make the Native culture work with in the boundaries set by us. We are trying to put a round peg in a square hole.

What ever remains of the Native culture is only a shadow of what it once was. Government intervention was what sealed their fate, not what destroyed their culture. That happened long before. The pilgrims were never intended to get along and co-exist with them.

 

[SparrowHawk]

Simplistic? Maybe! I'm a simple guy. I don't need an 18 month study to tell me I'm taking it in the shorts on a minute by minute basis from a Federal Government rum amok and you know what? Neither do the Indians.

We got shenanigans going on right here today with Indians and fishing rights. The Dakota Indians were granted under treaty certain fishing rights off rez. Today is the start of Fishing season, So a whole bunch of Dakota's are out without licenses because according to truce and treaty they don't need one. So they are trying to get themselves arrested in order to force a test case.

Response from the MN Fish and Wildlife Commissioner? He's not going to arrest them, Failing to enforce the law because they'll lose the court case and once again the Indians get no justice from Government. Supporting Article Here

I renew my objection and yield back the rest of my time.

 

[Ms Tree]

I don't have time to read the article now but seems to me if according to the treaty no permit is needed then they are not breaking the law by fishing with out one and therefore cannot be arrested for something they are not doing. What's wrong?

 

[SparrowHawk]

I don't have time to read the article now but seems to me if according to the treaty no permit is needed then they are not breaking the law by fishing with out one and therefore cannot be arrested for something they are not doing. What's wrong?

What's wrong is I explained it wrong. This the same issue as today with the Dakota Indians so the issues are the same as with the Ojibwe in Bemidji.

BEMIDJI, Minn. (AP) — Ojibwe band members went fishing before last year's opener to force a treaty dispute into court, but the state still hasn't brought charges, and the issue is ongoing even as the 2011 opener approaches.

The Leech Lake and White Earth bands have been fighting for the right to fish and hunt in northern Minnesota without government interference. They say an 1855 treaty with the federal government exempts them from observing the state's hunting and fishing seasons and other regulations.

 

[777 fixer]

Why are you so afraid of Freedom & Liberty?

I'm against Liberty and Freedom now? What's next, you're going to call me an enemy of the people? That's the problem with Ron Paul supporters. If someone says something they don't like about the great Ron Paul they start to get nasty.

What's the difference between you and say a hardcore Obama supporter in 2008? IMO there is none. Both of groups seem to think that as long as their guy gets in office it will all be sunshine and rainbows. They seem to forget one very important fact. This is surprising considering the number of Constitutional experts in the Ron Paul crowd. The way our system of government is set up a President cannot do whatever he wants to do. So if you think he's going to make sweeping changes just because he's President you are going to be mighty disappointed.

 

[777 fixer]

I know exactly why Ron Paul took the earmarks. He knew his vote was going to be on the losing side. Given that he figured better get what I can for the PEOPLE I REPRESENT and BTW he's said as much.

You can try and sugar coat it, label people, question peoples devotion to liberty and freedom all you want. Trying to make the argument he did it because he knew he was going to be on the losing side makes no sense. Simple fact of the matter is he could just as easily put in no earmarks. Whether or not it was going to pass or not was irrelevant regarding his earmarks.

May I remind you what Ron Paul said regarding hurricane relief. "Why do people in Arizona have to be robbed in order to support the people on the coast?" He seems to contradict himself. On one hand he says he's supposed to represent the people in his district even if that means robbing someone in Arizona.

 

[delldude]

You can try and sugar coat it, label people, question peoples devotion to liberty and freedom all you want. Trying to make the argument he did it because he knew he was going to be on the losing side makes no sense. Simple fact of the matter is he could just as easily put in no earmarks. Whether or not it was going to pass or not was irrelevant regarding his earmarks.

May I remind you what Ron Paul said regarding hurricane relief. "Why do people in Arizona have to be robbed in order to support the people on the coast?" He seems to contradict himself. On one hand he says he's supposed to represent the people in his district even if that means robbing someone in Arizona.

So who does the Fixer recommend as a candidate?

 

[777 fixer]

So who does the Fixer recommend as a candidate?

To be totally honest nobody at this point.

 

[SparrowHawk]

You can try and sugar coat it, label people, question peoples devotion to liberty and freedom all you want. Trying to make the argument he did it because he knew he was going to be on the losing side makes no sense. Simple fact of the matter is he could just as easily put in no earmarks. Whether or not it was going to pass or not was irrelevant regarding his earmarks.

May I remind you what Ron Paul said regarding hurricane relief. "Why do people in Arizona have to be robbed in order to support the people on the coast?" He seems to contradict himself. On one hand he says he's supposed to represent the people in his district even if that means robbing someone in Arizona.

Well I'd rather have an intellectually honest candidate as opposed to the current scar upon the land.

$4/gal Gas
14.3 Trillion debt
1.6 Trillion budget shortfall
Unlawful Attack on Sovereign Country (Libya)

The Empty Suited Scar aka Supreme Leader of the Peoples Democratic Republic of Barackistan, Barack Obama spent more in 24 hours of an illegal attack on Libya than the 3 earmarks Paul took.

You're comparing a few dollars to an impeachable offense. Game Set Match

 

[777 fixer]

Well I'd rather have an intellectually honest candidate as opposed to the current scar upon the land.

$4/gal Gas
14.3 Trillion debt
1.6 Trillion budget shortfall
Unlawful Attack on Sovereign Country (Libya)

The Empty Suited Scar aka Supreme Leader of the Peoples Democratic Republic of Barackistan, Barack Obama spent more in 24 hours of an illegal attack on Libya than the 3 earmarks Paul took.

You're comparing a few dollars to an impeachable offense. Game Set Match

So in other words you got nothing and this is just an attempt to change the subject.

It's an impeachable offense? Says who, you, some talking head, Dennis Kucinich? If it really is then I guess they had better dig up Ronald Reagan and arrest GWB Sr down in Texas.

 

[SparrowHawk]

So in other words you got nothing and this is just an attempt to change the subject.

It's an impeachable offense? Says who, you, some talking head, Dennis Kucinich? If it really is then I guess they had better dig up Ronald Reagan and arrest GWB Sr down in Texas.

GWB - Went before Congress went before Congress or did you miss the memo?
Reagan- Used Article 51 on the UN charter as cover and if you recall was a one time attack.

How would I know what's in Ron Paul's head? He took the earmarks. So what? There were over 8000 of them in the so called stimulus. Why not go and look and see how may others took before you chastise the ONE guy with even an ounce of integrity in all of Washington DC?

I'll tell you why, If he ever gets to be President and return us to the Constitution of Thomas Jefferson, you and the Liberals will actually have to fend for yourselves. Those who produce at a high level get paid at a high level, Government no longer get to pick winners and losers.

Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms of government those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny.
Thomas Jefferson

Barack Obama is the Butt Boy who's carrying the water of Tyranny

 

[delldude]

Just to hijack the thread, while you're on the impeachable offense gig.....

Anybody paying any attention to the gun sales fiasco in Texas sponsored by BATF?

Apparently BATF was moving assault weapons, pushing dealers to 'assist' and two US agents turn up wacked with some of these guns. Holder don't know dick about it and neither does Barry.
Then I heard something about Sarah Brady griping to the greatest Black President since Bill Clinton about him not doing anything about gun control. And his response was he was doing something about but was going to do it by a backdoor and nobody would realize it.

Now they want to label a whole bunch of different shotguns and rifles as assault weapons and I believe the BATF dance is part of the end game.

White House through Holder playing games selling guns to Mexican drug dealers to make a point and isn't it funny how Hillary and Barry were crowing about Mexican drug gangs getting guns from the US?

Two US agents dead because of some lame scheme to control guns here should be looked into and if DOJ and POTUS implicated.....bye

 

[SparrowHawk]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HtZcD6JegTc&NR=1

 

[dapoes]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HtZcD6JegTc&NR=1

Again more "what if's" and no "what is". Don't get me wrong if my decision comes down to Obama or Ron Paul come Nov 2012, Ron will be my vote without hesitation. But I think his foreign policy is more wishful thinking then anything else.

 

[xUT]

To be totally honest nobody at this point.

Our problem is that we have to vote for someone. Given the choice of the retards in the aristocratic, oligarchic, plutocratic, professional politicians that are a bunch of liars and thieves, which one do we choose?
IMHO, we need to press the reset button and purge the whole lot. :angry: