RDU coming to LHR

[IORFA]

You might think they are worth squat, but some small African or Eastern European airline might think differently than you. Either way, LGW slots have value to someone out there. Even someone like Brussels airline, not even sure if they still fly to LHR, might be interested in moving across town. Never know. Of course I am just speculating, I just hope they don't reduce service to LON, just to consolidate into LHR.

 

[MAH4546]

You might think they are worth squat, but some small African or Eastern European airline might think differently than you. Either way, LGW slots have value to someone out there. Even someone like Brussels airline, not even sure if they still fly to LHR, might be interested in moving across town. Never know. Of course I am just speculating, I just hope they don't reduce service to LON, just to consolidate into LHR.

No, they are actually worth squat. If some African airline wanted them, Gatwick could give them to to them, for free. Heathrow slots are valuable because they are so limited and all used up. Gatwick slots are not all used up, so airlines can get them from Gatwick at no cost.

 

[IORFA]

I'll take your word for it, but if there are slots for the taking, why is all the NEW service to LON from the least wanted airports? Luton and Stansted. I would imagine that LGW would be better for the business crowd than those airports.

 

[MAH4546]

I'll take your word for it, but if there are slots for the taking, why is all the NEW service to LON from the least wanted airports? Luton and Stansted. I would imagine that LGW would be better for the business crowd than those airports.

Maxjet and Eos are not flying to Gatwick.

 

[FrugalFlyerv2.0]

AA didn't buy slot, nor are they trading for Gatwick slots which aren't worth squat.

The new flights will come at the expense of current service, but it has not been decided which ones. That is why they are starting JFK-STN. To keep the daily number of flights to London the same, along with competing against Maxjet/Eos (Maxjet is set to announce MIA soon...wonder if AA will respond to that).

Hmmmm, why would you give up LHR slots for a flight from JFK/ORD/LAX/BOS/MIA for a flight from RDU? Are the O&D and yields from the aforementioned cities that bad that RDU-LHR is more of a money maker?

I know AA has a good pharmaceutical industry client from the RDU area - but still I can't imagine that RDU is worth a slot from any one of JFK/BOS/ORD/LAX/MIA. DFW is a little different since it is AA's main hub, but I would hope AA got slots from BA or purchased from somebody else - especially since DL and NW are now rumored to have obtained LHR slots to/from their main USA hubs.

I think JFK-STN will be totally catered to be a leisure market. I can't imagine too many (or any) business people using STN. STN is a bus station-like airport, way out of London and is a huge hub for Ryanair and a LHR-like magnet (substitute?) for all the Euro LCC's (Easyjet, SkyEurope, AirBerlin, Niki, etc.) as well as the Euro-charter airlines.

Sure STN has Maxjet/EOS with the couple daily flight to USA - but it is nothing that AA should be concerned with since, IMHO, no $eriou$ frequent flyer would even think of using STN. Although I haven't been to STN since last summer, I think AA may make $$$ on cargo - I believe STN was expanding its cargo facilities and I think they will eventually build a second runway.

Maxjet and Eos are not flying to Gatwick.

Probably because they could not get the desired slots, whereas at STN they could. I'm sure there are plenty of European airlines, especially charters, some Euro-LCC's (Easyjet has a presence at LGW I believe, etc.), even BA, that may be interested in Gatwick slots. Although compared to the value of LHR slots LGW are almost worth squat.

 

[MAH4546]

Hmmmm, why would you give up LHR slots for a flight from JFK/ORD/LAX/BOS/MIA for a flight from RDU? Are the O&D and yields from the aforementioned cities that bad that RDU-LHR is more of a money maker?

The RDU-LHR route is heavily subsidized. It is guaranteed to make money.

I think JFK-STN will be totally catered to be a leisure market. I can't imagine too many (or any) business people using STN. STN is a bus station-like airport, way out of London and is a huge hub for Ryanair and a LHR-like magnet (substitute?) for all the Euro LCC's (Easyjet, SkyEurope, AirBerlin, Niki, etc.) as well as the Euro-charter airlines.

There is a decent amount of business traffic to the region, as Maxjet and Eos have discovered.

Probably because they could not get the desired slots, whereas at STN they could. I'm sure there are plenty of European airlines, especially charters, some Euro-LCC's (Easyjet has a presence at LGW I believe, etc.), even BA, that may be interested in Gatwick slots. Although compared to the value of LHR slots LGW are almost worth squat.

Nope. Getting slots at Gatwick is very easy, you just need to ask. Under Bermuda II, which expires next March, only two US airlines can fly between JFK and LON (which is defined only as LHR and LGW), and those two are American Airlines and Delta Airlines. Delta currently can't fly to LHR because Bermuda II also doesn't allow them, as only AA and UA can use LHR right now. Again, Gatwick slots, outside of a very, very small handful during peak periods, are actually worth nothing. You can get them, for free, from Gatwick. Why would you pay for them?

 

[FrugalFlyerv2.0]

The RDU-LHR route is heavily subsidized. It is guaranteed to make money.

So you're saying that with the GSK corporate contract, AA makes more money on the single RDU-LGW (soon to be RDU-LHR) flight than on a comparable single JFK/ORD/BOS/MIA/LAX-LHR flight?

I don't think RDU-London is a money loser (GSK corporate contract plus cargo) BUT why would AA give up slots or re-allocate slots from one of their USA-LHR gateway cities if they can purchase them? See BoeingBoy's earlier post:

"But it is understood that American Airlines has recently bought slots from Gulf Air, while Luxair, the small Luxembourg airline, is understood to have solicited offers for its Heathrow holdings, with a decision on a winning bidder likely to be taken within a fortnight. None of these airlines would comment yesterday."

Article

Jim

There is a decent amount of business traffic to the region, as Maxjet and Eos have discovered.

Sure there may be a STN-USA market, but the majority of businesspersons and serious frequent flyer$ will chose LHR 99 times out of 100 over STN. Have you ever been to STN?

Nope. Getting slots at Gatwick is very easy, you just need to ask. Under Bermuda II, which expires next March, only two US airlines can fly between JFK and LON (which is defined only as LHR and LGW), and those two are American Airlines and Delta Airlines.

Really? I thought Gatwick was also tough to get into. Isn't it maxed out since it is currently only a 1 runway airport? Certainly LGW slots aren't as valuable as LHR but I don't think BAA is giving them away like goldfish at a country fair.

Also, how do you explain, in addition to DL, the other USA airlines flying into LGW - namely NW, CO, US?

 

[MAH4546]

So you're saying that with the GSK corporate contract, AA makes more money on the single RDU-LGW (soon to be RDU-LHR) flight than on a comparable single JFK/ORD/BOS/MIA/LAX-LHR flight?

On a per-flight basis, MIA-LHR is the most profitable Heathrow route. I agree that is seems odd AA is doing this, but RDU-LHR has a ridiculously lucrative corporate travel contract that guarantees paid F seats.

Really? I thought Gatwick was also tough to get into. Isn't it maxed out since it is currently only a 1 runway airport? Certainly LGW slots aren't as valuable as LHR but I don't think BAA is giving them away like goldfish at a country fair.

Also, how do you explain, in addition to DL, the other USA airlines flying into LGW - namely NW, CO, US?

Gatwick is not tough to get into. Northwest, Delta, Continental, and US Airways are not allowed to fly to Heathrow, until Open Skies goes into effect.

That Gulf Air/AA rumour is interesting, hope it comes true.

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

HEL*, why don't we(AA) just "copulate" with BA, and JL, put THE BEST ammenities(SP?) in the sky, and RULE the WORLD ??

I really don't think it to be too "big a stretch" of the Imagination.

Then Sir Richard, and every other S O B , can KISS AA/BA/JL's A$$ !!


NH/BB's

 

[eolesen]

One reason that MaxJet and EOS chose STN may be because it isn't run by BAA. Far lower costs if you can avoid BAA.

 

[oldbscaler]

Probably one of the reasons AA is moving the RDU flight to LHR is that with DFW going to LHR, that would leave only one flight per day at LGW. As expensive as LHR is, It might be cheaper to just shut the LGW station down, and pull out.

 

[nyc6035]

Sure STN has Maxjet/EOS with the couple daily flight to USA - but it is nothing that AA should be concerned with since, IMHO, no $eriou$ frequent flyer would even think of using STN.

Don't be so sure. EOS in particular is attracting quite a following. Come September they will be up to 4 flights a day (on some days) including a daytime flight out of JFK.

Don't assume AAdvantage will tie everyone to AA on every route. EOS appears to have built up a nice following...and I might add a First Class product (at what is basically a business class fare).

 

[upsilon]

I can't imagine too many (or any) business people using STN. STN is a bus station-like airport, way out of London and is a huge hub for Ryanair and a LHR-like magnet (substitute?) for all the Euro LCC's (Easyjet, SkyEurope, AirBerlin, Niki, etc.)...
Sure STN has Maxjet/EOS with the couple daily flight to USA - but it is nothing that AA should be concerned with since, IMHO, no $eriou$ frequent flyer would even think of using STN.

Sure there may be a STN-USA market, but the majority of businesspersons and serious frequent flyer$ will chose LHR 99 times out of 100 over STN. Have you ever been to STN?

I think I am a $eriou$ frequent business flyer on AA. I am PLT, with over 3MM - and I have been to STN. I also am a ‘frugal flyer’; but I will not fly trans-Atlantic or overnight in Coach. I have found that Eos and Maxjet offer a good NYC-LON product at an affordable price. If that is my O&D, then EWR and STN are equally convenient as JFK and LHR.

If my destination in Europe is anything other than BRU or CDG (on AA), I find EasyJet and RyanAir through STN to be not that much different from the BA experience intra-Europe – and I avoid the transfer at LHR between T3 and the BA flights at T1/2. Many of the ‘serious frequent flyer$’ that post on FF boards would choose ’99 times out of 100’ to avoid that. Maybe they will now try STN and find it preferable.

If they do not, and only the “tourist/backpacking crowdâ€, fly with the ‘cargo’ on AA to/from STN, it will mean I will be able to reliably use my AA miles to upgrade coach fare seats to business class.

In spite of not having experienced it before, I will then hold my nose in the "glorified bus-station" you call STN and step over the (your words) “lot of British holidaymakers (white trash, lots of mullets, wife beaters, interesting vocabulary, people sleeping on the floors, etc)â€. And I will go on to London or to the North. If I go to other parts of Europe via the LCC, their fares will make up for the UK £40 tax I will pay on the return flight to the USA as a non-thru fare pax and any excess luggage charges.

Yes, as you said, “this is great news for me†– and it is also for me. My only question is, how will AA price their business class fares to STN in competition with Eos and MaxJet? I look forward to seeing them loaded into the data base.

 

[upsilon]

Eric, STN is a BAA-managed airport. Only Luton (where Silverjet operates LON-NYC) is not a BAA airport.

 

[FrugalFlyerv2.0]

If my destination in Europe is anything other than BRU or CDG (on AA), I find EasyJet and RyanAir through STN to be not that much different from the BA experience intra-Europe – and I avoid the transfer at LHR between T3 and the BA flights at T1/2. Many of the ‘serious frequent flyer$’ that post on FF boards would choose ’99 times out of 100’ to avoid that. Maybe they will now try STN and find it preferable.

While transfers between LHR terminals may be inconvenient, I think you're exaggerating a bit to say that intra-EU service on BA and Ryanair or Easyjet or any Euro-LCC is the same. Also I have to wonder how many people would prefer to fly a Euro-LCC out of STN to their final EU destination - since Euro-LCC's serve 2nd and 3rd tier airports. For example - flying to Frankfurt the Euro-LCC's will get you to Hann, Vienna = Bratislava, Milan = Bergano. You save money on airfare and may have an easier transfer and quick check-in, but it may take you longer to get to your final destination. For somebody like me who twice per year takes AA to LHR/LGW and then a Euro-LCC from STN to my final destination this arrangement works well.