raises comin sept 14
- Thread starter robbedagain
- Start date
767 mechanic
Veteran
- Aug 8, 2004
- 544
- 527
The bottom line here is the formula in our contract was not used period. The twu and the iam screwed all of us. Do you think that it is a coincidence that almost all of the m&r at aa and us pay came to almost the exact pay. The pay was suppose to be broken down category by category. Meaning base pay,license premiums,shift differtial,longevity and all categories related to pay should have been broken down separately and divided by 3. The information that has been put out by the company on jetnet proves that this was not done. My proof is that it shows US having a .58 sgiift differtial for mids. If Dal and Ual had zero shift differtial,the .58 divided by 3 would be .19 so where is our additional .19 raise. Lets also look at the longevity pay UAL if I remember correctly gets a $1 longevity raise after 12 years of service and US and Delta don't get any so $1 divided by 3 equals .33 raise that we did not get. The bottom line is that if you avg UAL,DAL and US you are not going get the avg as you would get if you avg UAL,DAL and AAL. If these two so called unions didn't have anything to hide they would give us the numbers from each work group at each airline. Where is the transparency from the company and the union. We should have the exact numbers from every work group
Our frozen plan is a single employer plan. The IAMPF is a multi employer plan. The pbgc payout schedule for a multi employer plan is less than a single employer plan. So lets say our frozen single employer plan with American should end up with the pbgc. The pbgc would pay us more money than it would if it was a multi employer plan. Now if for some reason down the road the IAMPF gets our frozen plan all that money goes into the plan for everyone in it. If the IAMPF goes insolvent and ends up in the hands of the pbgc it would pay out even less since our original plan went from single to multi. We have seen things happen in this industry that one would have thought would never happen 20 years ago. So don't doubt it won't happen to us because a few people say it wont. If your considering the IAMPF think hard and twice. Our 401K is much better. At 59 1/2 you can start drawing from your 401K without tax penalty. Your match contribution is a percentage of your gross pay. The more O/T you work the more goes into it. Pick up a cs and more money for you. The IAMPF is a flat dollar contribution. All the o/t and csw's you put in will have no affect on the pension contribution. Want retire before 65? Better read the fine print on the IAMPF before doing it. Remember the 401K is YOUR MONEY and you can do as you please with it. You can borrow from it and pay yourself back with interest. Again it's Your Money.
I did not look at all the numbers but the few that I did are questionable at best. It appears at first the union and company decided on which parts of the average to use and omit. I'm sure there will be explanations coming. We probably won't like it. But you know we have this all new association looking out for us. We should be used to this by now.767 mechanic said:
AMFAinMIAMI
Veteran
This Assoc. no matter how it got here at the New AA is going to do what we are used too.
Both the IAM and TWU at both US and AA did not Look out for our work group.
Most of us will agree on that. Many times in our past we had the chance to remove the IAM & TWU but due to certain events that have been discussed on many of these threads on this forum, we ALL at both carriers did not feel it was important enough to do.
Whether you work at AA or US we all can look back at the contracts we have signed, and BLAME NO-One but ourselves. If you talk to guys on the floor at your station every one voted NO, but it passed didn't it?
The BK isn't completely settled and yet the Assoc. wants to move fwd with negotiations but allows AA to put further delays on items like our prefunding here at AA. Not sure what is happening at US but I could guess they have things there as well that need to be settled before we get a JCBA.
Not fully reading the contract is OUR Fault, Our leaders fault for Not pointing out it's Flaws as well. We all have given up or lost so much in the many yrs we all have been here, I can only assume that if/when a contract is negotiated we will just repeat the same ol'e thing.
Take the small chump change that is being offered and NOT Look at what we gave up to get what AA & the Assoc. want us to sign just so they can prosper.
We didn't get the IBT here, we didn't get AMFA here, We all have seen what the TWU and the IAM as individual unions did to the M&E work groups. Be Honest with yourself, the raise we got is what both these unions feel you deserve. No Fight, No Gain.
Just because AA is making $$$$$ more than you ever could imagine Do You really think they are going to share it with YOU?
Both these unions have kept up the numbers as well so they get more dues, When it is all said and done do you think AA is going to keep these numbers? Delta/UAL have far less why would AA keep that? The Assoc. will get us less to keep those numbers.
Maybe there will be another buyout, we have lots of new jets which will require less MBV so some down sizing is Going to happen, don't you all think?
You get what you fight for,
Both the IAM and TWU at both US and AA did not Look out for our work group.
Most of us will agree on that. Many times in our past we had the chance to remove the IAM & TWU but due to certain events that have been discussed on many of these threads on this forum, we ALL at both carriers did not feel it was important enough to do.
Whether you work at AA or US we all can look back at the contracts we have signed, and BLAME NO-One but ourselves. If you talk to guys on the floor at your station every one voted NO, but it passed didn't it?
The BK isn't completely settled and yet the Assoc. wants to move fwd with negotiations but allows AA to put further delays on items like our prefunding here at AA. Not sure what is happening at US but I could guess they have things there as well that need to be settled before we get a JCBA.
Not fully reading the contract is OUR Fault, Our leaders fault for Not pointing out it's Flaws as well. We all have given up or lost so much in the many yrs we all have been here, I can only assume that if/when a contract is negotiated we will just repeat the same ol'e thing.
Take the small chump change that is being offered and NOT Look at what we gave up to get what AA & the Assoc. want us to sign just so they can prosper.
We didn't get the IBT here, we didn't get AMFA here, We all have seen what the TWU and the IAM as individual unions did to the M&E work groups. Be Honest with yourself, the raise we got is what both these unions feel you deserve. No Fight, No Gain.
Just because AA is making $$$$$ more than you ever could imagine Do You really think they are going to share it with YOU?
Both these unions have kept up the numbers as well so they get more dues, When it is all said and done do you think AA is going to keep these numbers? Delta/UAL have far less why would AA keep that? The Assoc. will get us less to keep those numbers.
Maybe there will be another buyout, we have lots of new jets which will require less MBV so some down sizing is Going to happen, don't you all think?
You get what you fight for,
- Banned
- #51
The prefunding has zero to do with a JCBA.
And the IAMNPF is fully funded and in no danger of being turned over to the PBGC.
And they aren't taking your frozen and underfunded by almost $2 billion dollars, it would immediately put the plan in the red zone.
Come up with new fear tactics.
And the IAMNPF is fully funded and in no danger of being turned over to the PBGC.
And they aren't taking your frozen and underfunded by almost $2 billion dollars, it would immediately put the plan in the red zone.
Come up with new fear tactics.
The prefunding match was a simple deal. The twu screwed that up. The IAMPF is fully funded only because they reduced the size of the glass from a half full 32 oz. glass of water to a full glass of water now at 16 oz. Who's kidding who? We are all at an age where the IAMPF will do us no good. It's a lousy plan with more restrictions than our frozen plan and 401K.
Kev3188
Veteran
DL has shift differential; .45/hr. for 2nd shift, and .52 for 3rd. No longevity.767 mechanic said:
EDIT: There's also line pay of .75/hr.
scorpion 2
Veteran
- May 11, 2012
- 539
- 562
What you didn't say was that benefits will be cut first before it goes to the pbgc and at the plan managers discretion. Give us some facts about the crappy rules we would be bound by under the iam plan. That plan has no safety net other than to cut benefits or pull more cannon fodder into the fold to bring more cash into the plan.700UW said:
When Sean Doyle was here in Tulsa and gave a meeting in hung 5 break room I asked if he would provide a letter signed by someone with authority stating that are frozen pension money would not be touched or would not be part of the negotiations. He said he would but still nothing. He won't answer my texts or take my calls. So I believe it is safe to assume they are planning to use that money.
Give us a reassurance that it won't in the future. 5 years from now or within 10 to 15 years when most of the current AA employees in the M&E represented under the association will be retired. My 401K is not subjected to be turned over to the pbgc. My 401K is in my control. Spare us your dribble that it's funded and not in any risk of insolvency now or 10 years from now.700UW said:
My 401K is still better than the IAMPF. Less restrictions and I have control on investments or can acquire a financial consultant if I desire. My frozen pension and 401K payments can go to my wife if something happens to me. The IAMPF stops paying once I'm gone. BIG DIFFERENCE. My frozen pension is and will be there as well as my 401K. The IAMPF is a Vegas crap shoot. All they see is $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$. What you don't know or see is that almost everyone at the work place knows about the scam IAMPF. You don't see that because you don't work for AA. Spare us the "I know people that like the IAMPF and so on" At the end of the day when everyone sits down and reads about the three plans the IAMPF is a bad financial risk.
I actually got an answer from him and he stated that the IAMNPF would benefit newer members. I copy/pasted his email below:cheetah said:
There needs to be some clarification in your email. To roll our frozen pension into the IAMNPF would require AA to agree. AA would still be liable for their contributions. I simply believe AA would never agree to that. I said I would carry the message back which I have. As far as the voting on the Association, I specifically said there were case history both ways. The NMB has both recognized and called for a vote. I said in every meeting the NMB controls this process. The NMB made the decision which is binding. Surprised? Yes, but we now move forward to reconcile our contracts and get to the bargaining table as quickly as possible.
As far as the comment you said I made about " this would not be good for any of us" I said this would not be beneficial to those who were senior and ready to retire. I also said that we have new hires that may want to explore this option to join the IAMNPF. This should be their right.
What I'm asking you to do is to not just look at things from your seniority perspective, but understand that we have to look at our membership in its totality as leaders.
So he "Believes" AA wouldn't agree to roll our pensions into the IAMNPF. Specifically why we wanted a document. Looks like there is every intention to sell us out to the IAMNPF.
