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Radical and Hateful APFA members trying to kill the recall of TWAers.

oh Please... I offten wonder how things would have been if TWA F/AS were asked to give some of their senority and the shoe was on the other foot. I'm sure they would of gladly given up their senority..... In your dreams !!! Perhaps 2% not self centered and 98 % CENTERED when it comes to hard earned senority.... Get real...

We gave Ozark DOH. This was at a time when 6000 of our f/as were locked out. Their ratio was similar to the AA-TWA deal. What we found is that it really didn't make that much difference. Junior before was still junior, senior was still senior, and the rest of us just meshed. I can honestly say that I never (once I returned to the line after being on strike from March of '86 to May of '88) looked at what I was holding and said, "Dang, if we hadn't have given OZ DOH, I could have held that flight". The only people who were "fussy" were the trainee/replacements that had enjoyed super seniority. This issue is closed so why continue to take the focus off the real issue which is the extended recall for "some" and not "all".

F/A Mikey, you are correct in that was not the first offer. AFA wanted 7-1 (seven of their to one of our), then they wanted to merge only the people on the property and when the full term strikers were brought back, they would go below those already on the property. I was in meetings with Vicki Frankovich when she said, "We WILL give them DOH, because it is the right thing to do". It was a hard sell given our position of being "on the street. She knew that labor peace could only be accomplished by protecting the FTS f/as AND doing what was the right thing. That being said, I will once again state that I never thought we should be given DOH. Can we put this to bed?
 
The relationship of the APFA National Officers and the Board of Directors can be as dysfunctional family you might find on earth

National Officers abusing powers....or.... BOD micro managing the Natl Offcrs...?

take your pick...


At the end of the day its a pointless political pissing contest ...painful to watch and listen to not to mention a waste of energy and resources...

This kind of stuff drove me away from Union work.....I cant say I miss any of it...
 
They did when TWA bought Ozark in the mid-80s, Ozark F/As were given DOH. You tend to think everyone thinks selfish like the posters I was replying to. But if you look over thousands of posts on this web site, at every other airline the posters think what you did to the TWA F/As was unconscionable. Some replies compared it to rape.
Say what you will , believe what you want.... NOBODY is willing to give up their senority... Everyone wants to protect it in any way they can. As for all the other websites you are talking about , I'm sure they think it was unconscionable what we did to TWA F/As...love to see what they would have done . It's like everyone " Talks the talk... lets see them Walk the walk "
 
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The relationship of the APFA National Officers and the Board of Directors can be as dysfunctional family you might find on earth

National Officers abusing powers....or.... BOD micro managing the Natl Offcrs...?

take your pick...

At the end of the day its a pointless political pissing contest ...painful to watch and listen to not to mention a waste of energy and resources...

This kind of stuff drove me away from Union work.....I cant say I miss any of it...


Very interesting point. Who is in charge here anyway?
 
Say what you will , believe what you want.... NOBODY is willing to give up their senority... Everyone wants to protect it in any way they can. As for all the other websites you are talking about , I'm sure they think it was unconscionable what we did to TWA F/As...love to see what they would have done . It's like everyone " Talks the talk... lets see them Walk the walk "

Fear rules everything when it comes to seniority. Trust me, we were not "happy" BUT my point was that when we were merged it just wasn't that big of a deal. (With the AA deal)There were 4000 of us (not all senior), plus the 18000 of you all, and a good portion would have stayed in STL or NY. An additional Intn' fence could have been added. I'll be willing to bet if we were not at the bottom to "cushion" the furloughs, the APFA would have better fulfilled the first responsibility of a union which is to preserve jobs. Why are we having this discussion? The issue at hand is regarding an NPNR extension of recall BECAUSE OF 9-11, which excluded some of those furloughed.
 
...that all depends on who you ask..a Natl. Offcr. or a Base Chair..?

In this case it obviously wasn't the base chair. He was left out of all talks and unelected persons were given access to the discussions. Could it be that the current (and recently recalled Chair) have not become willing members of the "I will not make waves" crew". I can assure you that they would not have surrendered millions in won but unpaid grievance awards without fighting for those who have already lost their jobs due to the events of 9-11. It is sad how "we" sometimes fight for our own interests without looking at the "whole". A needless sacrifice.
 
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...that all depends on who you ask..a Natl. Offcr. or a Base Chair..?


Well the APFA BOD passed the recall extension 14-4 after nine hours of somewhat contentious debate. Seems they had to call the Senator's office and get some from her office come and reassure the BOD that they would not be giving up anything more to the TWAers. I still say APFA is a sick outfit. Perhaps the AAers really do need to clean house.
 
American pilots speak out against legislation


The Allied Pilots Association, which represents American Airlines pilots, “expressed its concernâ€￾ Friday about proposal legislation affecting how airline unions would merge their seniority lists when their airlines merge.

The legislation, backed by the two Missouri senators, Democrat Claire McCaskill and Republican Kit Bond, would set up binding arbitration to decide how seniority lists from the merging airlines would go together.

“While this legislation is no doubt well-intentioned, APA does not favor legislative branch involvement in any aspect of labor negotiations,â€￾ APA president Lloyd Hill said. “We believe this legislation could have adverse, unintended consequences for the very same unionized workers that Congress was trying to help.â€￾


The American union faced the same issue when American bought Trans World Airlines Inc. in 2001 and added 2,300 TWA pilots. APA adopted a plan that put the most senior TWA pilot below the most senior 2,500 American pilots, so that a TWA pilot hired in 1963 had a lower position than an American pilot hired in 1985.

About half of the TWA pilots were folded into the APA seniority on about a 1-to-8 ratio – one TWA pilot, eight American pilots, one TWA pilots, eight American pilots, etc. The remaining TWA pilots, the most junior ones, were just stapled to bottom of the American seniority list.


story here
 
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American pilots speak out against legislation


It is not unexpected. Hill reminds me of Dubinsky at UAL, choke the golden goose (UAL) just short of death. That way pilots max out in pay. Of course it does not take into account the economic health of the airline.
 
Well the APFA BOD passed the recall extension 14-4 after nine hours of somewhat contentious debate. Seems they had to call the Senator's office and get some from her office come and reassure the BOD that they would not be giving up anything more to the TWAers. I still say APFA is a sick outfit. Perhaps the AAers really do need to clean house.


I can't find anywhere which chairs voted to approve, and which were against? Nine hours is a long time. Who was holding it up?
 
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I can't find anywhere which chairs voted to approve, and which were against? Nine hours is a long time. Who was holding it up?



Cannot exactly tell you exactly. DFW, IDF, BOSI and DCA were the no's I believe.
 
Cannot exactly tell you exactly. DFW, IDF, BOSI and DCA were the no's I believe.


all JW groupies with an ax to grind....

BOS domestic is absent, this has her scent all over it.. which leads me to beleive one of the above is incorrect if there were only 4 no votes..Ill have to check.

also

have you ever been to a APFA BOD meeting..?


9 hours sounds just about right for an APFA BOD meeting ..(with one agenda item)
Im sure there was enough "verbal masturbation" from both sides to last 9 days..!!
 
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all JW groupies with an ax to grind....

BOS domestic is absent, this has her scent all over it.. which leads me to beleive one of the above is incorrect if there were only 4 no votes..Ill have to check.

also

have you ever been to a APFA BOD meeting..?


9 hours sounds just about right for an APFA BOD meeting ..(with one agenda item)
Im sure there was enough "verbal masturbation" from both sides to last 9 days..!!


No I have not been to an APFA meeting. If I were to attend I think I would be easily discouraged by the amount of politics that goes on. There seems to be way too much emphasis on my group versus your group. The good guys versus the bad guys. I gather this from attendees. Way too many Karl Rove's in attendance. My way or the hiway. Then there are endless one issue rather hateful attendees like JN and his small band of followers. From an outsiders point of view I think you need some honest new faces in the organization. Then maybe if Marcoux is lost it will finally dawn on the members that the place needs to be shaken up and there is a price to pay for violating the rules. It amazes me that anyone would vote for a deposed dishonest union leader. It also amazes me that APFA diden't bring charges against JW.
 
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