Questions for Jim Little in Tulsa meeting....
- Thread starter CMH_GSE
- Start date
Could not agree more but you want get that from the TWU!!
Chuck Schalk
Veteran
- Nov 17, 2006
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what will stop the company from laying off employees if the contract proposal passes? What language is there to prevent it?
we lose our system protection in this proposal, what protection do we have from being let go after if it passes?
what was the "fight like hell" negotiations, when all we accepted was the company proposal?
we lose our system protection in this proposal, what protection do we have from being let go after if it passes?
what was the "fight like hell" negotiations, when all we accepted was the company proposal?
With the removal of the Eagle ASM restriction clause,what will prevent AA from handing over most of our domestic network to Eagle or another low wage regional feeder?This will cause more layoffs without penalty to the company right? saved jobs?A319s, are they coming to AA or AE? Will the new unlimited parallel operation be Eagle or another combination of companies?does the TWU plan to organize and represent the new feeder carriers like they did at Eagle?Why would TWU fight for AAers when they represent the "Dues payers" at the parallel operation?At ORD nearly 65% of our daily departures have been handed to Eagle. and that is WITH the ASM cap. but those 65% are worked by TWU represented AE people.Conflict of interest?
Does this agreement with the removal of the ASM cap not Seriously undermine the APA fight to preserve scope.?No other airline has unlimited parallel operations, why would we just give it to AA?
Does this agreement with the removal of the ASM cap not Seriously undermine the APA fight to preserve scope.?No other airline has unlimited parallel operations, why would we just give it to AA?
- Aug 20, 2002
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Can he get the unwritten parts also?
- Thread Starter
- Thread starter
- #21
Valid question: Why not have the company verify in the language how many early outs will be allowed?
why? If you vote yes you will be stuck with this for six years either way. Ual mechanic still work under their own contract and continental theirs
The company made it clear that they were only shooting for a 50% + 1 vote here. If the promise of Early out gets them past the mark then they win, all they have to do is give it to one guy and they've satisfied the legal requirement. If they dont care that 49% voted against it do you think they care if 99% are pissed ofgf? They are confident that eiether way you will still show up, even on weekends and Holidays, still work OT and still help thme generate $24 billion in revenues and when this BK scam is over $3 billion in profits.
Our problem is we do not learn from the past. In 95 they promised an early out package, got the contract to pass by 70 votes, half the guys who were hoping for an early out got screwed, too late we were stuck with it fgor six years.
TWU informer
Veteran
- Nov 4, 2003
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TWU Contracts do not provide all of the information, there is always some kind of "me-too" clause or at "management discretion" in these agreements. And that doesn't even take into consideration the side letters of agreement that happen during the basic agreement.
I can respect your desire to have all of the information, but as others have already told you, that will never happen with the TWU agreements, because the company writes the language and James C Little or some other appointed for life leaders says yes or no to that language and then the FEAR begins to get 'er done.
Many of us that have been through multiple TWU Negotiations no longer believe the union or respond to the FEAR. The AA/TWU tag team is really counting or your FEAR to out weigh your demand to know the details before you vote. I am very sorry if you are about to get displaced or RIF'd, it isn't that I have no compassion for my fellow man, it is that I am tired of not getting the details myself and then finding out that what I thought the agreement said, was never there to begin with.
ENOUGH ALREADY!!
- Thread Starter
- Thread starter
- #27
Like I said before, I am losing my job at my current station regardless of how the vote turns out.
From what I have read, and I have absorbed everything I could get my hands on, a yes vote gives me and my family more options, more protections. It's not overwhelming, but it is more.
The conversations on this board have , at times, been enlightening. I am still in the information gathering mode and will be right up until the 14th when I will vote.
I would like all the information on the merger agreement with US as it may have huge ramifications on my future regardless how this vote ends up. I believe Jim Little is withholding key parts of the agreement, I think we have a right to see ALL of what it is he agreed to.
From what I have read, and I have absorbed everything I could get my hands on, a yes vote gives me and my family more options, more protections. It's not overwhelming, but it is more.
The conversations on this board have , at times, been enlightening. I am still in the information gathering mode and will be right up until the 14th when I will vote.
I would like all the information on the merger agreement with US as it may have huge ramifications on my future regardless how this vote ends up. I believe Jim Little is withholding key parts of the agreement, I think we have a right to see ALL of what it is he agreed to.
One thing I have noticed in the section 1113c, is that there is a 1.5% pay raise every year like the "agreement" we're voting on, but in the side by side comparison it says,
"wage increase terms will not apply if court rejects contract"
side by side comparison
http://www.twubkfact...isonChartMR.pdf
term sheet
http://www.twubkfact...rm Sheet MR.pdf
it's almost as if the union info is designed to scare us. If this info is wrong or over looked, what else has the TWU misinformed us about, who checks the accuracy of the info provided to us to make the best educated decision.
"wage increase terms will not apply if court rejects contract"
side by side comparison
http://www.twubkfact...isonChartMR.pdf
term sheet
http://www.twubkfact...rm Sheet MR.pdf
it's almost as if the union info is designed to scare us. If this info is wrong or over looked, what else has the TWU misinformed us about, who checks the accuracy of the info provided to us to make the best educated decision.
One thing that I hope everyone considers if they go to the meeting in Tulsa today, you are hearing the opinion of someone elses lawyers and experts.
They are going to tell yuou whatever their client wants them to tell you.
In Jim Littles Video he talks of this being the companies "Last best and final offer", well over the last 3+ years of Negotiations I've heard that several times, none of them were the last and none of them were the best.
The International is not directly saying that you should vote yes, or vote no, that would require a thing called leadership, but its clear from what they are telling you, and what they are not, that they want this to pass. WHY? IMO,several reasons.
1. They do not have to live under it.
2. A yes vote secures dues for the next six years, even though it may mean less revenue its still revenue, under the terms of the deal ther will be no system board Grievances so it will be revenue for nothing.
3.A NO vote means increased costs for the International which already had to lay off 20 of its employees, note that they did not slash pay and benefits to save jobs when it came to their pay and benefits
4. If this passes and Eagle grows at the expense of AA the TWU simply loses AA members and gets Eagle members.
5. The company did not touch the A-5 travel pass priviledges for International officers.
6. A no vote puts dues at risk because if there is No contract there is no Article 38. The RLA banned company unions so without a contract between the union and the company the company could not force you to pay dues.
They are going to tell yuou whatever their client wants them to tell you.
In Jim Littles Video he talks of this being the companies "Last best and final offer", well over the last 3+ years of Negotiations I've heard that several times, none of them were the last and none of them were the best.
The International is not directly saying that you should vote yes, or vote no, that would require a thing called leadership, but its clear from what they are telling you, and what they are not, that they want this to pass. WHY? IMO,several reasons.
1. They do not have to live under it.
2. A yes vote secures dues for the next six years, even though it may mean less revenue its still revenue, under the terms of the deal ther will be no system board Grievances so it will be revenue for nothing.
3.A NO vote means increased costs for the International which already had to lay off 20 of its employees, note that they did not slash pay and benefits to save jobs when it came to their pay and benefits
4. If this passes and Eagle grows at the expense of AA the TWU simply loses AA members and gets Eagle members.
5. The company did not touch the A-5 travel pass priviledges for International officers.
6. A no vote puts dues at risk because if there is No contract there is no Article 38. The RLA banned company unions so without a contract between the union and the company the company could not force you to pay dues.
