if i remember correctly,AGC bill freiberger said IAM was under funded by something like 100 million and the pilots was about 800 million.mech's with around 30 yrs service get about $2400/month give or take.i'm told a pilot should get around $10,000 /month.like almost 4/5 times what we get...wow.[BR]all those years of 'helping' the company in hours of need,like when we walked and they helped out seth...are now coming home to haunt them.[BR] i remember very well how they got very lucrative contract deals ALWAYS soon before the other labors groups were negotiating theirs. all for loyalty to uncle seth and a commitment to him.it worked quite well...they divided the labor groups very well...oh,i'm sorry...didn't mean to insinuate that the pilots are members of a labor group,aren't they actually management?[BR] then when their pals in management saw all around that all the other airlines were getting RJ'S and successfully utilizing them against US,managements little YES boys; the pilots,would not go along.all the while sitting and watching RJ'S come into our markets and take away revenue,watch our company slowly bleed...profits dwindled while fatcat pilots out of work sat at home getting paid.no give on the RJ issue.....they didn't seem to be able to suck up to wolfe like they did seth and rodney.[BR]wolfe recognized them for what they are,another overpaid labor group...LABOR group,a neccessary evil...a cut above the "greasers".so enters 'BIG D SEIGEL',first thing they do with him is show they're willing to suck up to him by penciling a 'deal' on RJ'S...whoa you showed WOLFE...you also showed all the other labor groups for what you are.welcome to the real world. [BR]have a very Merry Christmas .
Questions for ChipmunnChip,
- Thread starter jetmechline
- Start date
ITRADE
Veteran
[blockquote]
----------------
On 12/25/2002 1
24 AM chipmunn wrote:
US Airways, ALPA, PBGC, Senator Specter, and members of the Bush Administration will meet at the White House on Friday, December 27 to discuss the Defined Benefit pension problem.
The Company and ALPA are appealing the PBGC decision to reject the proposed retirement plan restoration funding; however, if the members above fail to over turn the PBGC's decision, I expect Specter to broker an acceptable deal.
Chip
----------------
[/blockquote]
Specter is definately a good guy to have in your corner when you're coming to talk to Bush 43.
----------------
On 12/25/2002 1
24 AM chipmunn wrote: US Airways, ALPA, PBGC, Senator Specter, and members of the Bush Administration will meet at the White House on Friday, December 27 to discuss the Defined Benefit pension problem.
The Company and ALPA are appealing the PBGC decision to reject the proposed retirement plan restoration funding; however, if the members above fail to over turn the PBGC's decision, I expect Specter to broker an acceptable deal.
Chip
----------------
[/blockquote]
Specter is definately a good guy to have in your corner when you're coming to talk to Bush 43.
12/25/2002 9
32 AM
chipmunn
Member
Total Posts: 1,093
Last Post: 12/25/2002
Member Since: 8/20/2002
Member #: 19
US Airways needs more help from unions
PITTSBURGH (Tribune Review) - The man with the millions to rescue bankrupt US Airways said Tuesday said efforts to save the airline could be scuttled if the airline's management and labor unions can't quickly resolve a $1.1 billion funding gap in the company's pension plan.
David Bronner, chief executive of the Retirement Systems of Alabama, which has pledged to invest $240 million for a 36.6 percent stake of US Airways to help it emerge from Chapter 11, said yesterday that failure to resolve the pension issue would jeopardize the airline's application for a $950 million loan guaranty.
The guaranty is needed for the airline to obtain $1 billion in loans, which together with the Alabama fund's investment, and the $300 million it has already provided in interim financing, are the financial pillars for the airline's survival.
The airline had proposed reducing the amount it would fund its pension plan from $3.1 billion to $2 billion over the next seven years. The Pension Benefit Guaranty Corp., a federal agency that insures pension plans, told the Tribune-Review last week that it rejected this proposal.
"It's right back to management and the unions to do something to make the PBGC happy. It's critical to get to this last step," Bronner said yesterday.
Although he said employees have already "gone over the wall" in re-negotiating contracts in order to come up with more than $1 billion in wage and work rule concessions, he said they've got to go one final mile on the pensions to get the deal done.
"If we don't get the government approval on the pensions, all this work has been for naught," he said. "There has to be some middle ground for the management and unions to see what they can do to improve the pension situation to qualify for the loans."
US Airways recognizes the pension issue as one of the critical issues to resolve in order to successfully exit bankruptcy, but won't say what measures it is mulling.
"We've met every challenge so far in this process, and we're committed to resolving the pension liability issue. We're not in a position, however, to publicly discuss our options," said airline spokesman David Castelveter yesterday.
Bronner's warning comes on the heels of a similar warning from Sen. Arlen Specter, who wrote last week to the pension agency urging it to permit the airline to amend its pension plan.
Specter said the airline could be forced into liquidation if the pension gap isn't closed.
The airline filed a bankruptcy reorganization plan last Friday, and is awaiting a Jan. 16 hearing in bankruptcy court.
-----------------------------------------------
The doors to U did not close as Sen. Spectre claimed they would, so it becomes doubtful if the Senator has/had all the information that was needed before he put that in writing.
We are back to the same question, the survival of U comes down to the pension question.
WHY VOTE IN ANY FURTHER CONCESSIONS BEFORE THAT HAPPENS OR MAKE ANY AND ALL CONCESSIONS CONTINGENT ON RESOLUTION OF THE ISSUE BEFORE ANOTHER DIME IS TAKEN OR JOB LOST?
32 AM chipmunn
Member
Total Posts: 1,093
Last Post: 12/25/2002
Member Since: 8/20/2002
Member #: 19
US Airways needs more help from unions
PITTSBURGH (Tribune Review) - The man with the millions to rescue bankrupt US Airways said Tuesday said efforts to save the airline could be scuttled if the airline's management and labor unions can't quickly resolve a $1.1 billion funding gap in the company's pension plan.
David Bronner, chief executive of the Retirement Systems of Alabama, which has pledged to invest $240 million for a 36.6 percent stake of US Airways to help it emerge from Chapter 11, said yesterday that failure to resolve the pension issue would jeopardize the airline's application for a $950 million loan guaranty.
The guaranty is needed for the airline to obtain $1 billion in loans, which together with the Alabama fund's investment, and the $300 million it has already provided in interim financing, are the financial pillars for the airline's survival.
The airline had proposed reducing the amount it would fund its pension plan from $3.1 billion to $2 billion over the next seven years. The Pension Benefit Guaranty Corp., a federal agency that insures pension plans, told the Tribune-Review last week that it rejected this proposal.
"It's right back to management and the unions to do something to make the PBGC happy. It's critical to get to this last step," Bronner said yesterday.
Although he said employees have already "gone over the wall" in re-negotiating contracts in order to come up with more than $1 billion in wage and work rule concessions, he said they've got to go one final mile on the pensions to get the deal done.
"If we don't get the government approval on the pensions, all this work has been for naught," he said. "There has to be some middle ground for the management and unions to see what they can do to improve the pension situation to qualify for the loans."
US Airways recognizes the pension issue as one of the critical issues to resolve in order to successfully exit bankruptcy, but won't say what measures it is mulling.
"We've met every challenge so far in this process, and we're committed to resolving the pension liability issue. We're not in a position, however, to publicly discuss our options," said airline spokesman David Castelveter yesterday.
Bronner's warning comes on the heels of a similar warning from Sen. Arlen Specter, who wrote last week to the pension agency urging it to permit the airline to amend its pension plan.
Specter said the airline could be forced into liquidation if the pension gap isn't closed.
The airline filed a bankruptcy reorganization plan last Friday, and is awaiting a Jan. 16 hearing in bankruptcy court.
-----------------------------------------------
The doors to U did not close as Sen. Spectre claimed they would, so it becomes doubtful if the Senator has/had all the information that was needed before he put that in writing.
We are back to the same question, the survival of U comes down to the pension question.
WHY VOTE IN ANY FURTHER CONCESSIONS BEFORE THAT HAPPENS OR MAKE ANY AND ALL CONCESSIONS CONTINGENT ON RESOLUTION OF THE ISSUE BEFORE ANOTHER DIME IS TAKEN OR JOB LOST?
oldiebutgoody
Veteran
- Aug 23, 2002
- 2,627
- 945
I think it is contingent. If it doesn't get resolved, the doors get closed. That's contingent enough for most folks!
Sabre, an arguement could be made that the pilots are subsidizing the mechnics by taking such a LARGER bite than anybody else. we are subsidizing mechanics on tugs STILL! also the MANDATORY retirement age i believe plays into this.
perhaps U should go back to the ol' PI days of part-timers with no benefits etc.?
perhaps U should go back to the ol' PI days of part-timers with no benefits etc.?
A320 Driver
Veteran
- Aug 24, 2002
- 3,358
- 2,319
Delldude,
All this exaggeration to prove a point…right? Pilots make more than mechanics…Yes we do. We get more retirement…right again. We take BIGGER pay cuts whether you count the dollars or the percentages…dead on the money! So why all the hostility? We’re doing our part and making sacrifices like everyone else. 1800 of us hitting the streets. My first cut was 38% W2 plus bennies and this one is another 8% and my retirement is in jeopardy. So why am I still hearing the high pitched squeal from you about pilots? I’m not sure. Why don’t we just discuss the issues and ditch the class envy stuff. We all have something to add here. It doesn’t have to be insults and innuendoes.
A320 Driver
All this exaggeration to prove a point…right? Pilots make more than mechanics…Yes we do. We get more retirement…right again. We take BIGGER pay cuts whether you count the dollars or the percentages…dead on the money! So why all the hostility? We’re doing our part and making sacrifices like everyone else. 1800 of us hitting the streets. My first cut was 38% W2 plus bennies and this one is another 8% and my retirement is in jeopardy. So why am I still hearing the high pitched squeal from you about pilots? I’m not sure. Why don’t we just discuss the issues and ditch the class envy stuff. We all have something to add here. It doesn’t have to be insults and innuendoes.
A320 Driver
Sidelined_03
Newbie
- Dec 9, 2002
- 13
- 0
[P]
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]On 12/25/2002 10
43 PM
[P]My first cut was 38% W2 plus bennies and this one is another 8% and my retirement is in jeopardy. ----------------[/P][/BLOCKQUOTE]
[P] [FONT face="Comic Sans MS"]46% paycut isnt enough? I'm starting to believe people who say you could work for free[BR] and it still wouldnt help.[BR][BR] [/FONT][/P]
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]On 12/25/2002 10
43 PM [P]My first cut was 38% W2 plus bennies and this one is another 8% and my retirement is in jeopardy. ----------------[/P][/BLOCKQUOTE]
[P] [FONT face="Comic Sans MS"]46% paycut isnt enough? I'm starting to believe people who say you could work for free[BR] and it still wouldnt help.[BR][BR] [/FONT][/P]
So why am I still hearing the high pitched squeal from you about pilots? I’m not sure. Why don’t we just discuss the issues and ditch the class envy stuff. We all have something to add here. It doesn’t have to be insults and innuendoes
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Desperation, frustration, angry, fear, rage....are the things U has made employees feel with all the wrong courses they have chosen. Dave is called in to kill the fire without killing the employees too, but causalities are lying all over the place, people unemployed with the people remaining in emotional shreds. Most of this stuff is not personal, it's the lowest common denominator when men live in fear and hopelessness.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Desperation, frustration, angry, fear, rage....are the things U has made employees feel with all the wrong courses they have chosen. Dave is called in to kill the fire without killing the employees too, but causalities are lying all over the place, people unemployed with the people remaining in emotional shreds. Most of this stuff is not personal, it's the lowest common denominator when men live in fear and hopelessness.
nycbusdriver
Veteran
[blockquote]
----------------
On 12/26/2002 9:13:28 AM cavalier wrote:
Mechanics dont get a million dollar lump sum payment or $100,000 a year pension like pilots DO GET
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Take flying lessons then.
Cavalier -
You have hit the nail on the head!
----------------
[/blockquote]
----------------
On 12/26/2002 9:13:28 AM cavalier wrote:
Mechanics dont get a million dollar lump sum payment or $100,000 a year pension like pilots DO GET
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Take flying lessons then.
Cavalier -
You have hit the nail on the head!
----------------
[/blockquote]
[P]
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]On 12/25/2002 1043 PM A320 Driver wrote:
[P]Delldude,[BR]All this exaggeration to prove a point…right? Pilots make more than mechanics…Yes we do. We get more retirement…right again. We take BIGGER pay cuts whether you count the dollars or the percentages…dead on the money! So why all the hostility? We’re doing our part and making sacrifices like everyone else. 1800 of us hitting the streets. My first cut was 38% W2 plus bennies and this one is another 8% and my retirement is in jeopardy. So why am I still hearing the high pitched squeal from you about pilots? I’m not sure. Why don’t we just discuss the issues and ditch the class envy stuff. We all have something to add here. It doesn’t have to be insults and innuendoes.[BR][BR]A320 Driver[BR][/P]----------------[/BLOCKQUOTE]
[P][/P]all true observations over the years by myself and some of my distinguished wrench twisters.yes you get your million buck annuity,whoopee ding.but your union DID drag its feet and hurt OUR profits over the RJ issue.no hostility sir...no brag just fact.like i said and you can take it anyway you wish...you guys were in bed with the company all those years and now the cows have come home to roost,and your tree's not going to hold them cowz much longer.no high pitched squeal from me ,ree ree ree.....we're all in here for the duration ,no matter how long or short it will be. [BR]but this pension things the largest single thing that will put you and me and we on the street as far as i can see,sir.yall have a nice day
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]On 12/25/2002 10
43 PM A320 Driver wrote: [P]Delldude,[BR]All this exaggeration to prove a point…right? Pilots make more than mechanics…Yes we do. We get more retirement…right again. We take BIGGER pay cuts whether you count the dollars or the percentages…dead on the money! So why all the hostility? We’re doing our part and making sacrifices like everyone else. 1800 of us hitting the streets. My first cut was 38% W2 plus bennies and this one is another 8% and my retirement is in jeopardy. So why am I still hearing the high pitched squeal from you about pilots? I’m not sure. Why don’t we just discuss the issues and ditch the class envy stuff. We all have something to add here. It doesn’t have to be insults and innuendoes.[BR][BR]A320 Driver[BR][/P]----------------[/BLOCKQUOTE]
[P][/P]all true observations over the years by myself and some of my distinguished wrench twisters.yes you get your million buck annuity,whoopee ding.but your union DID drag its feet and hurt OUR profits over the RJ issue.no hostility sir...no brag just fact.like i said and you can take it anyway you wish...you guys were in bed with the company all those years and now the cows have come home to roost,and your tree's not going to hold them cowz much longer.no high pitched squeal from me ,ree ree ree.....we're all in here for the duration ,no matter how long or short it will be. [BR]but this pension things the largest single thing that will put you and me and we on the street as far as i can see,sir.yall have a nice day
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