Question To Cio And Twuer

[Hopeful]

CIO, TWUer, and all other anti AMFA pro TWU types:

I would like to know your feelings on the Flight Attendant group having once been with the TWU and who now enjoy thier own representation. If you like, you can offer your opinions on the APA group as well.

Why is it beneficial for those two groups to have their own unions, but not mechanics?

Before you answer with the AFL-CIO and strength in numbers mantra, would you object to a mechanics' union that is AFL CIO affiliated?

WHY ARE YOU SO DEAD SET AGAINST MECHANICS HAVING THEIR OWN UNION?

 

[Bob Owens]

They wont answer.

 

[Thrustfuljet]

Why is it beneficial for those two groups to have their own unions, but not mechanics?

The twu is like a cult organization, this question is beyond their realm of thinking. Must get feed back from Jim little or Sonny Hall!

 

[Hopeful]

True!

Their only argument is what's wrong with AMFA, never what's right with the TWU!

 

[Thrustfuljet]

Hard to argue what's right with the twu when all they have to fall back on is 20 years of concessions.

 

[Checking it Out]

It seems like several have already answered for us! Intimidation?

 

[Checking it Out]

Hopeful, If you look at the SW Flight Attendants and the representation they are receiving you can see the difference.

 

[Bob Owens]

Hopeful, If you look at the SW Flight Attendants and the representation they are receiving you can see the difference.

The difference between them and us?

Where they negotiate face to face with the company as opposed to through Jim Little?

Tell us how Sonny squashed their proposals at the last Convention.

 

[Hopeful]

CIO:

I asked you a simple question: WHY ARE YOU SO DEAD SET AGAINST MECHANICS HAVING THEIR OWN UNION?


Please answer!

And I also mentioned AA F/A's having once belonged to the TWU.
I did not refer to the SWA F/A's.

Can you please answer the questions?

 

[Bob Owens]

CIO:

I asked you a simple question: WHY ARE YOU SO DEAD SET AGAINST MECHANICS HAVING THEIR OWN UNION?


Please answer!

And I also mentioned AA F/A's having once belonged to the TWU.
I did not refer to the SWA F/A's.

Can you please answer the questions?

I asked Sonny a similar question. Only mine was to put all airline workers into one union. To combine the ATDs of all the AFL-CIO unions into one.

Here is Sonnys response;

"Also, Robert let me clarify one other point. In concept, I fully understand the positives of having every AFL-CIO Union that represents airline industry workers, in one Labor organization. Nonetheless, leaders must understand the reality of a goal. Your union would respond to any call by the AFL-CIO leadership to meet with all the Unions involved and, at least, talk about it, but Robert, our Lord himself may not be able to accomplish that goal."

Sonny Hall with CC to Jim Hoffa, Thomas Buffenbarger and Jim Little on January 12, 2001.

Now lets look at what Sonny said.

"In concept, I fully understand the positives of having every AFL-CIO Union that represents airline industry workers, in one Labor organization."

In other words he knows that having an industrywide union is better than having seperate unions for each company.

"Nonetheless, leaders must understand the reality of a goal. "

In other words "It aint gonna happen, as a leader you should know that the priority is not the good of the members but the good of the organization that pays for all our perks and six figure salaries. Consolidation would leave less opportunity for us within the organization. With the TWU by far being the smallest of the unions involved all of our officials would end up back on the floor-about the worst fate that any TWU official could suffer-having to work under the conditions they put in place!

"Your union would respond to any call by the AFL-CIO leadership to meet with all the Unions involved and, at least, talk about it, "

Sonny knows damn well that such a call would never come as it is against AFL-CIO policy to interfere in such a way with members unions. My original letter went to John Sweeney's office who responded right away. I was told that they favored the proposal and agree that we would be better off under a combined, consolidated structure however I must pursue it internally. This is typical of Sonny Hall, to defer blame and hide is opposition because he knows that his opposition reveals his true intents.

"our Lord himself may not be able to accomplish that goal."

So now its Gods fault. God leaves us to control our destiny, he gave us free will. Sonny uses God to conceal his true intents. In other words he uses God to lie. Is this a trait we want from the man who controls our livelyhood?

 

[Checking it Out]

Hopeful Read the description of Mechanic and Related under the NMB, This will help in answering your Question. I believe I answered your specific question on F/A since it was open to interpretation.

You can dream all you want about seperating at the cost of the related. Fact is the NMB has ruled! Live with it! amfa has made it clear others are not wanted and is willing to sacrafic them.

You know what is interesting? Go look at the-mechanic site and see the discussion about Us vs. them going on at SW vs. AA locals? and than go look at dell's suggestions for change? than come back and talk about the termoil amfa has created!

Destruction of our Profession at its BEST!!!!!

Tear down trust to win an election and than wonder why solidarity is non-existance! It's not always greener on the other end of the field!

 

[Hopeful]

CIO:
Then please explain how the pilots are at a disadvantage not having other work groups under their umbrella. How about, carpenters, electricians, plumbers, etc?


I hope you are not still hung up on the strength in numbers drill!

Let's not refer to the current debacle of a contract we have now.

Let's go back to that highly coveted 6 YEAR CONTRACT WHICH BROUGHT US 6 1/2% INCREASE IN PAY!


So much for strength in numbers!

 

[Your_Ex-Wife]

I'm more concerned about what happens here locally and do not have time to research/reply to all unions and professions as you. My focus is on keeping MCIE open and viable, that means keeping the amfa out.

 

[Buck]

So what is your opinion concerning the OSM wages that will take effect at MCI when all are recalled from furlough?

 

[j7915]

CIO:
Then please explain how the pilots are at a disadvantage not having other work groups under their umbrella. How about, carpenters, electricians, plumbers, etc?


I hope you are not still hung up on the strength in numbers drill!

Let's not refer to the current debacle of a contract we have now.

Let's go back to that highly coveted 6 YEAR CONTRACT WHICH BROUGHT US 6 1/2% INCREASE IN PAY!


So much for strength in numbers!

Why don't you look at the legal, financial and image situation of the pilots?

Legally you have to be a fully certified pilot before you can take a seat in the cockpit. The senior pilot of the company can't just sign off on your work from segment to segment, or for a period of time. No pilots no flying, no flying no revenue flow immediately. Mechanics are not going to shut down a carrier immediately, maybe over the longer term, but revenue flow will continue, as work gets done by unlicensed personnel and signed off by licensed management.

Pilots make enough that they can subsidize fellow pilots at other carriers who may be involved in a work action. Many pilots also have secondary jobs, which the flying at best interfers with anyway. How many mechanics could a mechanics only union keep alive while they are out on a job action?

Pilots are seen by the public as "leaders" both because of their heritage from maritime navigation and also because so many were/are officers and gentlemen by decree of Congress. Can you show where the mechanics are held in the same esteem? The public seems to hold plumbers in higher regards, after all they serve a vital function, mechanics are in the public image related to the guy who tinkers with your car at the local dealership.

So we engage in this carefully leveraged game of negotiating the best deal each time and doing so by making the deal hurt less than a job action would. Or convincing the company that in his long term interest it is best to take a job action and change the playing field.

The folks at UAL bluffed and lost. At NWA they modified the contract and retained the pay at the cost of many jobs. Now we can observe what NWA will want in labor concessions, and just how far they will push to get those concessions.