Qatar Air CEO: Delta CEO Uses Terrorism Rhetoric to ‘Hide His Inefficiency

[WorldTraveler]

but the Middle East population in DTW isn't a very high income group.

there are probably as many or more Indians and Middle East people in Atlanta and Indians tend to be higher income and more predisposed to travel.

still even for the ME3 carriers, there has to be a business component that can pay higher fares and that doesn't exist in DTW. Doesn't even exist in ATL... the reason why DL makes DXB work is because of the connections from all over the US outside of the NE.

thanks for the correction on the equipment on the PHL flight.

 

[robbedagain]

actually  for the ME group  if compared to the kind of jobs they would do over there vs in DTW  Id say its a huge pay   but for us it would not be so much 

 

[WorldTraveler]

but tickets are priced in US dollars.

and you are right that the Middle East countries have heavily built their economies on the backs of low paid immigrant work from Asia. that is why in part they operate so many large aircraft on short distances and can get by with having 10 abreast seating on their regional/Asia routes (within 4-6 hours of the Middle East)

 

[FWAAA]

d eleted

 

[robbedagain]

think if the tkts are priced in USD  its also possible to do it in their own currencies as well   but some airline websites such as ANA has it set if you buy it in say Japan  then its paid in Japanese currence.
 
sorry for taking it off topic

 

[WorldTraveler]

Fares are generally sold in the currency of the origin. You can buy them in other locations via a conversion but air transport is like any other product or service. You cant use Mexican pesos to buy a Big Mac in Berlin or Boston

The point here though us that airfares are generally based on US cost of living

lower income people cannot generally afford international air transportation unless it is a very high priority and about their own disposable income purchase

 

[topDawg]

DL is and will stand up for free and fair competition.

That is the issue with DAL and the ME3.

Air India is no real threat because of their horrid service.

The ME3 offers good service -that is heavily gov't subsidized.

DL isn't going to roll over.

and neither is AA or UA.

As usual, Anderson is more outspoken. In the case of linking state subsidies with 9/11, I think he can have left that part out.

but his point is valid that the Arabian Peninsula is the source of radical Islam.... it is also true that the more western leading gov'ts including Qatar and the UAE are strong US allies. They know what can happen to their gov'ts if radical Islam is allowed to run amok.

Anderson has directly linked AI to being a reason ATL/JFK-BOM is gone. ME3 didn't help any. 
 

 
As you said previously, the EU carriers are at much more at risk from the ME3.  Ofcourse I don't expect the French to speak up or do any of the 'fighting' but why is DL getting speaking up?  Specifically, what is the threat to DL?  As you bragged, they don't care to serve ATL, let alone DTW, MSP, SLC (although DTW I'm a little surprised there is not a ME3 carrier there yet).

Two things, 
hub flows. So India is a big point of target because you fly the ME3 to India. I can tell you that it is a key reason why Delta no longer flies to India. Dito for AA. 
Second point, the ME3 don't fly to ATL yet. They will. 
 
 
A good example is how cheaply you can fly JFK-MXP on EK. And they are about to put a 380 on the route........ 

Your post about the $5 billion is misleading 700. That payment was direct compensation for the airlines not being able to operate due to the federal order shutting down the airspace. It is in no way comparable to any direct subsidy that the ME3 receive from their governments. If the $10billion in loan guarantees only a little over a billion was paid out, and many airlines saw their applications denied.

this
 

 
Folks, I think we have a winner.  
 
What makes this claim even more delectable is that some of us remember how on Airliners WorldFraudster would tout the advantages DL had over AA by partnering with AF and not BA.  So much for the self-proclaimed airline psychic!

So because IAG is bigger they are now better? 
 
Gah I really think you are just WT acting like an AA fan boy. I'll be damned if you guys don't post the same exact stupid things. (just one for DL one for AA) 
 

If he is so well spoken he would not have put his foot in his mouth

I don't think he really did. 
 

 
Speaking of which - did you see the earnings results Air France-KLM announced?  Yikes.
 
The disparity evident when comparing the performance of IAG and its subsidiaries (oneworld members BA and Iberia, plus Vueling) to that of both Air France-KLM and Lufthansa's group of carriers continues to be remarkable.

Now you guys b$%ch and cry at him for taking things way OT
 
 
 
then post bait for him to do so. Can anyone round here keep things on topic or nah?

 

[WorldTraveler]

and Parker or Kirby have s.aid that AA would return to India if the fares were higher - and it is precisely because of AI and the ME3 that fares to India will never return. Given that the Gov't of India knows that AI is finished if they don't continue to heavily subsidize AI, there is little to no chance that the GOI will back away.

so you are right that AI is part of the problem but AI is about one country. The ME3 is about a region.

and the Euro flags have competed with AI for years so they could if they wanted to.

the fare environment to India was better for DL because the AMS-BOM is/was (until it ends) operated as part of the JV.

DL partially shot itself in the foot with its internally imposed flight routing restrictions that add an extra 1-2 hours to the flight time. a weak fare environment compounded with 15-25% higher costs is no recipe for success.

I'm not arguing with DL's decision - they have people that can evaluate the risks - but the overflight decision has compounded a fare problem.

and thank you for sticking your nose into my pi78ing contest with commavia and LDV but I can stick up for myself 0 and they are fairly easy to whip anyway.

the UK economy is in a better shape than continental Europe and France is notably worse off than the UK or Germany.

but this whole ME3 issue doesn't isolate the UK or any one country from what is going on, including AA vs DL vs UA.

the whole reason why AA, DL, and UA are all addressing the issue is to make it clear to Washington that the future of US aviation really is at risk if the ME3 are allowed to continue to pick off one route after another, just exactly what they have started to do with JFK=MXP.

GIven that AA's TATL network is far more concentrated around a smaller number of cities on both sides of the Atlantic, it will take much less effort by the ME3 to hurt AA than it will DL or UA.

DL has shown a better understanding o f the major strategic issues facing the industry nad has gotten in front of them but AA and UA are not unaware of what is going on or their need to respond to the issue as well.

LDV can try to reduce this to an AF vs BA/ DL vs AA issue but it is far larger than that and his attempts only prove that he doesn't understand the issue at all.

 

[jcw]

yes NYC, MIA, PHL, ORD and DFW are very small cities compared to:
 
NYC, ATL, DTW, MSP

 

[WorldTraveler]

not sure what your point is but this is a good time to highlight that AA's share of the NYC and ORD markets are well below what DL has in its hub markets which include SLC. DL's average fares across both the Atlantic and the Pacific are higher than AA's.

when you factor in that NYC and ORD are far larger markets and DL has both a larger share and higher total revenue in its markets in those same regions, your argument falls on its face pretty quickly.

further, AA's share of the combined DAL/DFW local market will drop from the 50% that AA has of the domestic market today to 40% or lower by the time WN builds out DAL and low fare competitors move into DFW.


DL's higher market share in its hubs is directly tied to its higher average fares.

whether you want to admit it or not, the AA/US merger created a lot of domestic mass but very little revenue strength beyond what AA already had (or didn't have) across the Atlantic and the Pacific or in the top US markets.

not sure why you brought up hubs but your basic thesis is flawed - bigger cities do not translate into higher revenue for AA compared to DL's hubs - in fact, just the opposite is true because AA has lower market share and low fare carriers control a higher percentage of the traffic.

 

[robbedagain]

not sure what this has to do with Qatar Air CEO and Delta CEO war of words  but it is worth noting that Emirates CEO Tim Clark refuses to accept R.A. apology

 

[WorldTraveler]

I am hardly surprised that he isn't interested in the apology... I'm not sure what difference it really makes.

He was going to do what he was going to do regardless of what RA said.... and it is no surprise even before this latest event that DL would never be friends or partners of the ME3 or TK for that matter.

as for the hubs, I'm not sure either why someone mentioned them.

but as I have repeatedly said but some people here can't accept, AA has given up a huge amount of hub dominance because of the 1. merger (DCA) 2. Open Skies and increased competition in Latin America (MIA) and 3. the end of the Wright restrictions (DFW)

when you factor in that AA already had a much smaller share of the Chicago or New York market than DL had in its Midwest hubs or NYC and DL's share of ATL has not changed in years and is higher than what AA has in the combined DAL/DFW market, it is now CLT and PHL that are AA's two most dominant markets - and both are far smaller than AA's hubs.

For years, there has been a PMAA arrogance that AA's hubs are superior despite the fact that AA's market share dominance was lower, AA's average fares are lower in its hubs vs. DL's comparable hubs, and competition is increasing in its hubs vs. a stable situation in DL's hubs.

it's also worth noting that ATL, DTW, MSP, and SLC are all one airport cities - for the majority of commercial service - while Chicago, Dallas, and Miami/Ft. Lauderdale have two or more commercial airports. some may argue that FLL is a separate city but when carriers are flying to the same destinations that AA is - including longhaul service to S. America - it is a valid 2nd city alternative.

the ability to maintain market share is much easier in a city with one airport.

and before anyone mentions ATL, the community leaders of Paulding County will make the decision as to whether they want an airport in their neighborhood.

and notably, PHL and CLT are single airport cities as well.

 

[Glenn Quagmire]

not sure what this has to do with Qatar Air CEO and Delta CEO war of words  but it is worth noting that Emirates CEO Tim Clark refuses to accept R.A. apology

What is worth noting is if the remaining 3 or 4 people who bother to respond to the troll would cease and desist, the forum would be a far better place.

All of this back and forth between the few who entertain it (the troll) could be done in a private chat somewhere else.

Then, maybe at some point, this board could return to what it used to be, sans troll.

 

[WorldTraveler]

because just ignoring the facts of the discussion, make it all go away, right?

no, the basic fact is that AA has serious strategic challenges which people here have regularly dismissed but which I have repeatedly cited and they are now coming to pass.

perhaps you missed the title of the Qatar Airways charge that DL is inefficient?

it is absolutely relevant to talk about DL's top of the industry revenue performance and its best in class operational performance - to show that like so many here, Qatar Air throws charges which are factually incorrect.

and when it becomes apparent that the AA/US merger didn't solve the revenue problems that I said faced them, then maybe it will be those people who will decide it isn't worth trying to argue their point any more and they will be the ones who will leave.

 

[FrugalFlyerv2.0]

but the Middle East population in DTW isn't a very high income group.

there are probably as many or more Indians and Middle East people in Atlanta and Indians tend to be higher income and more predisposed to travel.

 
That's why the ME3 and their fares are  a great option for them.
 
As far as Indians and higher income, you may be correct, but eve a couple of my Indian acquaintances with decent incomes have ditched the traditional way to get to India (USA-Europe-India) in favor of using the ME3.
 
 

as for the hubs, I'm not sure either why someone mentioned them.

but as I have repeatedly said but some people here can't accept, AA has given up a huge amount of hub dominance because of the 1. merger (DCA) 2. Open Skies and increased competition in Latin America (MIA) and 3. the end of the Wright restrictions (DFW)

 
I mentioned the DL hubs, or specifically DTW because of the large mid-east population in the area, possibly making it an attractive destination for one of the ME3 carriers.
(I hesitated to mention MSP because although I think it has a large muslim population, I believe most of it is Somalian - somebody correct me if I'm mistaken).
 
You know, you're cracking me up here mentioning over and over and over all these challenges to AA from LCCs and bragging how DL doesn't face them while ignoring the fact that AirTran grew up in ATL right under DLs nose or the presence of B6 at JFK.  Priceless!