Profit sharing

[bob@las-AA]

Doug Parker was on CNBC stating that profit sharing is outdated and that the other airlines should stop and pay higher wages, what a joke ! losing our profit sharing this year will cost at least a 10% wage cut , that's including our raise and the fact that we are still behind Southwest,Delta and United in average salary per worker.this management group made millions on the merger and they don't want to share it with the employees , bring back our profit sharing you lying SOB !

I don't think your math is at all correct. Looking at the amount of posts you have made and the lack of a avitar, I cant even speculate that you work even work for LAA or LUS. We did not lose PS, we never had it. clearly not to the extent you describe. 
But I will share some facts.
 
On 9/12/12 Top pay to the end of this contract 9/12/17 for Title III
FT Gross = $44,012.80 -9/12/12
Not including any longevity pay
FT Gross = $50897.60 -9/12/17
Not including any longevity pay
 
With the 5.5% match on the 401k brings gives us a
22% increase from 2012.
 
$53697.00
 
And my medical insurance did rise, but by only 1.6% from 2012

 

[AANOTOK]

I don't think your math is at all correct. Looking at the amount of posts you have made and the lack of a avitar, I cant even speculate that you work even work for LAA or LUS. We did not lose PS, we never had it. clearly not to the extent you describe. 
But I will share some facts.
 
On 9/12/12 Top pay to the end of this contract 9/12/17 for Title III
FT Gross = $44,012.80 -9/12/12
Not including any longevity pay
FT Gross = $50897.60 -9/12/17
Not including any longevity pay
 
With the 5.5% match on the 401k brings gives us a
22% increase from 2012.
 
$53697.00
 
And my medical insurance did rise, but by only 1.6% from 2012

That statement is not completely accurate either...as for your numbers, I'll take your word for it.
But to say we never had profit sharing is inaccurate. Not sure when you hired in, but I was hired in 83 and I do recall "ALL" employees received a profit sharing check (not just management) on a few occasions. Won't say they were retirement type checks, but they were "non-negotiated" checks nonetheless. I remember my only gripe was why in the hell they weren't even across the board instead of a pilot getting one for $10,000 and fleet getting one for $2,000. I know I worked just as hard as the next work group to make AA profitable.
That's another can of worms and issue I don't care to open and get into at this point.
Anyway yes, we did have it and it wasn't either/or...

 

[bob@las-AA]

That statement is not completely accurate either...as for your numbers, I'll take your word for it.
But to say we never had profit sharing is inaccurate. Not sure when you hired in, but I was hired in 83 and I do recall "ALL" employees received a profit sharing check (not just management) on a few occasions. Won't say they were retirement type checks, but they were "non-negotiated" checks nonetheless. I remember my only gripe was why in the hell they weren't even across the board instead of a pilot getting one for $10,000 and fleet getting one for $2,000. I know I worked just as hard as the next work group to make AA profitable.
That's another can of worms and issue I don't care to open and get into at this point.
Anyway yes, we did have it and it wasn't either/or...

This is my point, although I do admit I took the long way around. I was hired in 2008 and was not part of the fee flowing fountain of cash all of you enjoyed and expected. As for the amount that fleet got back then, if a clerk made the same back then 21.16 P/H that's still only a 4.6 increase in wages for that year. PS will never be shared on a even scale. Any tentative agreement that supports profit sharing verses a better wage, should be voted down. I'am looking for a larger contribution match on my 401 and ya mabe a better structural increase.     

 

[IORFA]

Why do you guys even acknowledge this jack off? Put him on ignore and then enjoy this site more! Eventually when no one responds to her/him, it will leave for good.

That would be why do you acknowledge WT? Just to be clear.

 

[WorldTraveler]

Why do you guys even acknowledge this jack off? Put him on ignore and then enjoy this site more! Eventually when no one responds to her/him, it will leave for good.

do you call everyone that disagrees with you a jack off?

let's face it.

I called this whole profit sharing issue as a key issue.

While it is impossible to quantify how many votes were lost because of the issue, there are threads on multiple aviation websites that are discussing AA's profit sharing issue - and it is also being discussed in non-chat media.

It IS an issue that matters to a lot of people, you and other AA labor fans misjudged the importance of it, you signed a deal to give it away at the very time when the industry is better positioned to generate more profits than it ever has, and Parker only has made the situation worse by his comments.

whether you like it or not and whether you want to call me names or not, I was right about the issue and you would do well to just deal with the reality of the problem instead of trying to denigrate others who actually recognized the problem and how APFA dealt with it.

 

[AdAstraPerAspera]

Funny you use the word "denigrate" when you are the king of personally attacking people

 

[WorldTraveler]

it's always nice to justify our actions by what others do, isn't it?

And there are threads on multiple aviation chat forums about AA's lack of profit sharing and Parker's comments, aren't there?

 

[Slopoke]

That statement is not completely accurate either...as for your numbers, I'll take your word for it.
But to say we never had profit sharing is inaccurate. Not sure when you hired in, but I was hired in 83 and I do recall "ALL" employees received a profit sharing check (not just management) on a few occasions. Won't say they were retirement type checks, but they were "non-negotiated" checks nonetheless. I remember my only gripe was why in the hell they weren't even across the board instead of a pilot getting one for $10,000 and fleet getting one for $2,000. I know I worked just as hard as the next work group to make AA profitable.
That's another can of worms and issue I don't care to open and get into at this point.
Anyway yes, we did have it and it wasn't either/or...

 
 
I think it was somewhere between 89-91 that we got a pretty nice size check. IIRC years of service and other multipliers were used to get the amount you were supposed to get.

 

[bunt3dunk]

I currently work in a management position and have had the profit sharing since the second emergence from bankruptcy , fleet serviced gave it away in 2007 along with the snap back clause that would have gone into effect in 2012 , big mistake , just like the $1500 signing bonus for the new contract . Alaska pays profit sharing semi annually and their on time performance bonuses are higher than ours.
The point is that Parker says that he would rather pay us more , but our pay increases don't equal what our profit sharing percentage was .

 

[WeAAsles]

Delta pays people to defend them and paint them in a good light all over social media. That guy is here because he is being paid to be here.

Or he has an extremely unhealthy obsession.

 

[WorldTraveler]

Parker is feeling the pressure.

He wants other airlines to quit offering profit sharing because it makes him look bad as the only CEO of the big 4 that doesn't offer it.

He couches it as being outdated but all that is outdated is the notion that the airline industry is supposed to lose buckets of money and go thru huge ups and downs - with the accent on down.

That doesn't exist any more and Parker knows it ... but he prefers to play on fears of the past because it allows him to pay his people less.



In an interview, Parker, the head of the world's largest airline by passenger traffic, called profit-sharing outdated. Competitors Delta Air Lines, United Airlines and Southwest Airlines still tout the millions (ed - actually hundreds of millions) of dollars they give to employees each quarter.

"They're bankruptcy-era contracts, and we're past those days," Parker said, adding that airlines offered profit-sharing in the last decade to make up for wage cuts. "We should move back to what normal industrial companies do, which is pay people (what) they earn.

Parker's position on and statements about profit sharing will be one of the most defining moments of his leadership at AA - and lead to his downfall.

 

[jcw]

Working hard to have the last posting on every thread

 

[dfw gen]

If everyone would put world traveler 700 and josh on ignore they will go away sooner or later

 

[FWAAA]

This is my point, although I do admit I took the long way around. I was hired in 2008 and was not part of the fee flowing fountain of cash all of you enjoyed and expected. As for the amount that fleet got back then, if a clerk made the same back then 21.16 P/H that's still only a 4.6 increase in wages for that year. PS will never be shared on a even scale. Any tentative agreement that supports profit sharing verses a better wage, should be voted down. I'am looking for a larger contribution match on my 401 and ya mabe a better structural increase.

I agree with the bolded portion. The "cost" to get significant profit sharing now would be very expensive. The time to get profit sharing is when profits are low or nonexistent, like in February, 2012, when management offered every employee group a first-dollar profit sharing plan equal to 15% of profits. Since AA had just filed for bankruptcy protection, employee concessions were a given, because that's why AA filed a Ch 11 petition.

Since concessions were going to happen (they always happen in bankruptcy), AA's employees should have demanded 25% and perhaps settled for 20% first dollar profit sharing. But instead, the pilots sold off 2/3 of the profit sharing for a small percentage increase, and the me-too provisions forced everyone else to do the same.

Result: Management "bought" back the profit sharing on the cheap. Very cheap.

 

[MetalMover]

Parker is feeling the pressure.

He wants other airlines to quit offering profit sharing because it makes him look bad as the only CEO of the big 4 that doesn't offer it.

He couches it as being outdated but all that is outdated is the notion that the airline industry is supposed to lose buckets of money and go thru huge ups and downs - with the accent on down.

That doesn't exist any more and Parker knows it ... but he prefers to play on fears of the past because it allows him to pay his people less.



In an interview, Parker, the head of the world's largest airline by passenger traffic, called profit-sharing outdated. Competitors Delta Air Lines, United Airlines and Southwest Airlines still tout the millions (ed - actually hundreds of millions) of dollars they give to employees each quarter.

"They're bankruptcy-era contracts, and we're past those days," Parker said, adding that airlines offered profit-sharing in the last decade to make up for wage cuts. "We should move back to what normal industrial companies do, which is pay people (what) they earn.

Parker's position on and statements about profit sharing will be one of the most defining moments of his leadership at AA - and lead to his downfall.

What pressure? Do you really think he cares? Do you really think thousands of employees are going to leave AA to go to other airlines JUST for profit sharing?
So now Parker's demise will come BECAUSE of his stance AGAINST profit sharing? Please!
 
Once again, give me a steady salary increase and you can keep your "economically adjustable" profit sharing check.
And also, once again, as i have stated here...our (TWU) PS formula was CRAP. 
I made more in 90s making half with profits LESS than this new "first dollar" formula allows.