Maybe if you'd do some "bumping" and "grinding" next time you're serving those drinks you could make some tips to get the wages up there. Ya gotta do that "special" treatment if you want to earn your pay.Fly said:
😛Profit Sharing.
- Thread starter El Gato
- Start date
😛
It's not? You've got to be kidding! I was doing very nicely on little more than half that much. When I crossed the 100K threshold, I was taking in more than I could spend (which is part of why I have been able to be unemployed this long). And I was living in a much more expensive city than PIT.Fly said:
QUOTE (ktflyhome @ Mar 26 2004, 03:58 AM)
...what is so wrong with anyone looking at their job as a Career.
Absolutely nothing. But then expectations must be set accordingly. Some jobs are just not cut out for making a long-term living (i.e. a career) out of. There's nothing wrong with deciding to do that job for the remainder of your days, but it's somewhat disingenuous to then complain that the job doesn't pay career wages.
I agree with a lot of what you are saying, but remember when most of us started working here, we knew what the expected pay steps were and agreed to take the job with the understanding that this would be the pay (cuts and raises not figured in). All of a sudden now, after 15-20 years, you're being told sorry, lets half that (after 3 rounds of cuts). Now, if many people had known when they started all those many years ago that the numbers would change, there are probably a lot of people who would have passed and gone into "real" professions.
To compare the employees at U vs B6 or FL in saying that you knew what you were doing and should live according to "their" scale after all this time is what I find amusing. Yes the people at B6 or FL are making less than we are and we have to adapt, but they started at their lower wage KNOWING that whatever their top out is is what they would end up making eventually and they chose the job knowing that just like we did oh so long ago. Its another matter entirely to NOW, after 15-20 years, to tell someone that its changed and then CRITICIZE them for making the choice back then. Heck when I started 19 years ago I was only making $5 an hour and I was happy to have a job. I'm sure thats how all the current FL and B6 people feel too.
And for some a note -Monkey not complaining, just explaining why some are where they are now and the past choices they made.
...what is so wrong with anyone looking at their job as a Career.
Absolutely nothing. But then expectations must be set accordingly. Some jobs are just not cut out for making a long-term living (i.e. a career) out of. There's nothing wrong with deciding to do that job for the remainder of your days, but it's somewhat disingenuous to then complain that the job doesn't pay career wages.
I agree with a lot of what you are saying, but remember when most of us started working here, we knew what the expected pay steps were and agreed to take the job with the understanding that this would be the pay (cuts and raises not figured in). All of a sudden now, after 15-20 years, you're being told sorry, lets half that (after 3 rounds of cuts). Now, if many people had known when they started all those many years ago that the numbers would change, there are probably a lot of people who would have passed and gone into "real" professions.
To compare the employees at U vs B6 or FL in saying that you knew what you were doing and should live according to "their" scale after all this time is what I find amusing. Yes the people at B6 or FL are making less than we are and we have to adapt, but they started at their lower wage KNOWING that whatever their top out is is what they would end up making eventually and they chose the job knowing that just like we did oh so long ago. Its another matter entirely to NOW, after 15-20 years, to tell someone that its changed and then CRITICIZE them for making the choice back then. Heck when I started 19 years ago I was only making $5 an hour and I was happy to have a job. I'm sure thats how all the current FL and B6 people feel too.
And for some a note -Monkey not complaining, just explaining why some are where they are now and the past choices they made.
It's about more than the promised contracts. When choosing a career, one must consider the market value of the job's contribution. That is, how easily could someone else do the job? Becoming a doctor or lawyer necessarily reduces the competition, because of the time and monetary expenditure to get there.tadjr said:
I'm not criticizing for making the choice. I'm criticizing for complaining about the outcome of that choice.
I can understand that. Is the same thing going to apply though IF in 5 years they find a cure for Aids and Cancer or they somehow manage to nationalize health care with Drs only topping out at $x of money now? Things change that you dont plan on. I could see where someone who graduates from medical school this year hopes in 15 years to be making $X amount of money and I could see (in their expectations of choosing medicine with todays current situation) where they would be a little upset if all of a sudden finding out that their choice is only going to get them a little bit of what they were expecting when they made their choice to go into medicine. Of course they're going to be getting more than the average person, but they're still going to be taking a cut in what they expected to be making at some point in their future. Do you think they will be offered the same "dont whine" about what you're making now you chose to be a doctor mantra that so many of us here are getting (not from you personally, but some are just as obnoxious as the max pay people.)mweiss said:
BoeingBoy
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I'll try to hit a couple of points in one post....
El Gato - You say Express is going away. Am I to assume that you mean that there will be no RJ's(including 170's) or turboprops flying in the US Airways colors? Otherwise, Express is still there and the detail of who owns the planes is irrevalent.
Those who say a worker is only worth what someone else is willing to do the same job for - that means that everyone who has a job is overpaid because there is always someone who will do your job for less. Doesn't matter if you are a doctor, lawyer, or indian chief. So if you really feel that no one should get more than that, I hope those of you that are employed will ask your employer to reduce your pay accordingly. Otherwise you're telling others to do what you refuse to do.
Jim
El Gato - You say Express is going away. Am I to assume that you mean that there will be no RJ's(including 170's) or turboprops flying in the US Airways colors? Otherwise, Express is still there and the detail of who owns the planes is irrevalent.
Those who say a worker is only worth what someone else is willing to do the same job for - that means that everyone who has a job is overpaid because there is always someone who will do your job for less. Doesn't matter if you are a doctor, lawyer, or indian chief. So if you really feel that no one should get more than that, I hope those of you that are employed will ask your employer to reduce your pay accordingly. Otherwise you're telling others to do what you refuse to do.
Jim
BoeingBoy,BoeingBoy said:
Look no farther than the IT industry to examine the effects of low wage competition on your job. It's not a question of their availablity, it is a question of when will your employer wake up and realize that he is being sapped by american workers who are expensive and non productive, while an indian worker is productive and cheap. Simple economics at work here - either adapt now, or be unemployed. And with this economy, and the number of people being affected in the same way, you will be lucky to get a job as a lousy walmart greeter. It's tough out there, believe me. Which is why I think ANYONE in this company who thinks they can "move on to another airline", or "turn wrenches at Otis elevator" has got to be smoking the holy herb. Companies are fighting for their lives out there, they need the BEST and the most MOTIVATED employees they can find, and at the cheapest cost. Otherwise, they are dead. US Airways is no exception.
BoeingBoy
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El Gato,
I'll take that to mean you'll be asking your employer to lower your pay to something approaching minimum wage - glad you'll be willing to do what you advise others to do.
Now how about the question about Express?
Jim
I'll take that to mean you'll be asking your employer to lower your pay to something approaching minimum wage - glad you'll be willing to do what you advise others to do.
Now how about the question about Express?
Jim
High Iron
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El Gato:
Though your thread opener seemed to be ostensibly an inticement, olive branch of sorts...whatever...there were still obvious overtones of a an attitude of "To the working class: Drop dead". As this thread progressed and your arguments pared/parsed, said attitude was, and is your thesis statement.
Look no farther than the IT industry to examine the effects of low wage competition on your job. It's not a question of their availablity
Oh yes it is. Wonder how many more visas Korporate kapitans can lobby ( arm twist ) for?
it is a question of when will your employer wake up and realize that he is being sapped by american workers who are expensive and non productive, while an indian worker is productive and cheap
Deliberately inflammatory shiv. "Sour grapes" for having your rhetoric rebuffed. No the Indian worker isn't "productive and cheap"...he's cheap. Gotta love corporate America's grip on foreign policy.
Simple economics at work here - either adapt now, or be unemployed
Thanks for the oversimplified kindergarden economics lesson, Adam Smith. While we're at it, maybe this is as good time as any to debate just what kind of economics ( classical, Keynesyian etc ) we're ( as a nation ) aspiring to...sorta like the opinions are like certain parts of the anatomy adage...........
And with this economy, and the number of people being affected in the same way, you will be lucky to get a job as a lousy walmart greeter. It's tough out there, believe me
I thought the economy was doing great? 😉 I mean, the standard bearers of the elitist tripe you peddle seem to scream the same from their ivory minarets.
Which is why I think ANYONE in this company who thinks they can "move on to another airline", or "turn wrenches at Otis elevator" has got to be smoking the holy herb
Didn't I recall the same statement in another thread? Anyway the wrench business is like the pilot business; Very fluid with wide variations in compensation. You can be wealthy or just get by. Depends on experience and "demand". I know that word somehow strikes a nerve, but everybody's life has static.
Companies are fighting for their lives out there, they need the BEST and the most MOTIVATED employees they can find, and at the cheapest cost. Otherwise, they are dead. US Airways is no exception
Fine specious rhetoric that ignores how many of said qualities can be mutually exclusive in the 3-way juggle. The statement in general fits right in to the elitist tone.
Though your thread opener seemed to be ostensibly an inticement, olive branch of sorts...whatever...there were still obvious overtones of a an attitude of "To the working class: Drop dead". As this thread progressed and your arguments pared/parsed, said attitude was, and is your thesis statement.
Look no farther than the IT industry to examine the effects of low wage competition on your job. It's not a question of their availablity
Oh yes it is. Wonder how many more visas Korporate kapitans can lobby ( arm twist ) for?
it is a question of when will your employer wake up and realize that he is being sapped by american workers who are expensive and non productive, while an indian worker is productive and cheap
Deliberately inflammatory shiv. "Sour grapes" for having your rhetoric rebuffed. No the Indian worker isn't "productive and cheap"...he's cheap. Gotta love corporate America's grip on foreign policy.
Simple economics at work here - either adapt now, or be unemployed
Thanks for the oversimplified kindergarden economics lesson, Adam Smith. While we're at it, maybe this is as good time as any to debate just what kind of economics ( classical, Keynesyian etc ) we're ( as a nation ) aspiring to...sorta like the opinions are like certain parts of the anatomy adage...........
And with this economy, and the number of people being affected in the same way, you will be lucky to get a job as a lousy walmart greeter. It's tough out there, believe me
I thought the economy was doing great? 😉 I mean, the standard bearers of the elitist tripe you peddle seem to scream the same from their ivory minarets.
Which is why I think ANYONE in this company who thinks they can "move on to another airline", or "turn wrenches at Otis elevator" has got to be smoking the holy herb
Didn't I recall the same statement in another thread? Anyway the wrench business is like the pilot business; Very fluid with wide variations in compensation. You can be wealthy or just get by. Depends on experience and "demand". I know that word somehow strikes a nerve, but everybody's life has static.
Companies are fighting for their lives out there, they need the BEST and the most MOTIVATED employees they can find, and at the cheapest cost. Otherwise, they are dead. US Airways is no exception
Fine specious rhetoric that ignores how many of said qualities can be mutually exclusive in the 3-way juggle. The statement in general fits right in to the elitist tone.
High Iron,
Not being elitist at all. Just being a brutal realist. Reality can stink, but it isn't going away. You mentioned everyone will be taking a cut, you are 100% correct - starting from the top down. I will lose 25%, you will, we all will. And yes, in this instance I am inclined to volunteer for it. Why? Because I can still live ok with less. I can make do and get by. And many others can too. More than anything, I would love to see US Airways get it's as* in ger and start making some money and take on the competition. But just like no football team can win if their attitude lousy, we can't win if we keep deluding ourselves that we are somehow "different" from the rest.
Not being elitist at all. Just being a brutal realist. Reality can stink, but it isn't going away. You mentioned everyone will be taking a cut, you are 100% correct - starting from the top down. I will lose 25%, you will, we all will. And yes, in this instance I am inclined to volunteer for it. Why? Because I can still live ok with less. I can make do and get by. And many others can too. More than anything, I would love to see US Airways get it's as* in ger and start making some money and take on the competition. But just like no football team can win if their attitude lousy, we can't win if we keep deluding ourselves that we are somehow "different" from the rest.
BoeingBoy,BoeingBoy said:
Those who choose to do so will be voting for a rational wage, that which the company can afford to pay, and can still make a profit at. Right now, they are burning money.....so where do you expect your paycheck to come from? The customer is now what drives the market - if you try to gouge him like in the past, all he has to do is go to your competitor and then you're done. You've lost. And to sustain low fares, the money has to come from somewhere.....I hope you're not one of those who are expecting Dr. Bronner to somehow "fund" your paycheck.
Express - first of all, the E170's are not express. Mainline pilots, mainline rules, sublevel pay scale. Express is express, the wholly owned and separate carriers. The question here is why keep them when they are costing money? Sell them to Mesa, IMO. Mesa can run it better and more efficiently and make money with it. We can't. You said it yourself.
High Iron,
The economy is rotten. US is losing money, all the majors are in deep dung. The free trade door has been swung open by dem and repub alike, and this has caused the flocking of american companies to go offshore for workers. We have no one to blame but ourselves. Want more of it? Just vote for Bush in 2004. Want to change it? Well....I don't know if it will work, but you could try drafting Perot for prez maybe.
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