Prater Road Shows

[nostradamus]

Give or take. It was a round ballpark number. But Yes, all are mainline.

These were my round numbers:
UAL 7600
DAL 7400
NWA 5000
CAL 5000

Notice 767jetz do not mention the pilots that work for the more successful airlines. American Airlines, Southwest Airlines, UPS, to name just a few, they are the best paid airline pilots but are not represented by ALPA. Usairways pilots will be out of ALPA shortly.

There is no safety in numbers for pilot representation. By the way I love Praters new toupee.

 

[USA320Pilot]

AAA73Pilot asked: "Did anybody attend todays (LGA) meeting?"

767jetz said: "I understand it was contentious and the East MEC did not hear anything they liked or that would forward their agenda. Hence no one is willing to reveal what was said. You can be sure that if Prater was "outraged" at the West for not "following the resolution of the Rice committee" it would be all over this web site."

USA320Pilot said: 767jetz, "Either you are purposely misrepresenting information or your LGA source is inaccurate. The meeting was respectful, but it was spirited and John Prater clearly saw the US Airways pilots resolve again to never let the Nicolau Award proceed, just like when about 450 US Airways pilots went to the May 21 EC meeting in Herndon. Prater is trying to keep ALPA on the property for both the East and West pilots with USAPA intending to submit the NMB Form 1."

767jetz said: "I am neither misrepresenting information nor is my source inaccurate. I was wondering when you would come on here to "shoot the messenger" as you always accuse others of. My source happens to be me. I was there. Prater saw not the USAirway's pilot resolve, but only what the East MEC wanted him to see."

LGA MEC F/O Rep. Sergio Fernandez said: "Yesterday, August 20th, Don (Iorio) and I participated in the road show sponsored by ALPA National.The entire day was spent at the LGA crew room after expressing our objections to Capt Prater holding his meeting in the food court. It was very obvious that Capt Prater and National as a whole are very concerned about the future of ALPA on this property. Many of the pilots that showed for the meeting had USAPA luggage tags and stickers clearly displayed on their ID badge."

Fernandez further indicated the pilots in attendance indicated "The moment the "LIST" is sent to the company, ALPA is history. He stated that he was very aware, based the outpouring of emails received, that the decertification efforts are alive and well at US Airways."

USA320Pilot comments: Tomorrow Captain Prater will be in the US Airways BOS Crew Room and I will have first hand information to report from the meeting.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[AAA73Pilot]

Thanks for the update. Was the same type meeting held in DCA? Or does anyone know?

 

[a320av8r]

Well, let's see...

If you count just UA, DL, NW, & CO, that's about 25,000 plus of the 57,000. I hope nobody thinks East's 3000 or so pilots is going to make such a big difference. They are more trouble than they are worth anyway.

I too have been waiting to see what happens before sending my card. You have just convinced me to send it in. You can have ALPA to yourselves.
BTW, it'll be about 6000 mainline pilots including the AWA pilots.
Thanks for the encouragement.

 

[767jetz]

I too have been waiting to see what happens before sending my card. You have just convinced me to send it in. You can have ALPA to yourselves.
BTW, it'll be about 6000 mainline pilots including the AWA pilots.
Thanks for the encouragement.

Adios amigo!

We'll see. I just don't see it happening. The East MEC and people like USA320pilot have been pushing this decert drive to threaten ALPA and the West, trying to put on a show of unity. I think the reality is that it will be futile and they know it. They are using the threat in an attempt to have the Nicolau award altered. It won't work. There are enough East pilots who might feign support at a union meeting to avoid peer pressure and harassment, but will vote with their wallet when they realize the financial benefit and quality of life improvement they will have immediately if a Joint Contract is put out for a vote. And don't expect any West pilots to vote ALPA out.

But if you're that confident, then have at it. If you make life decisions based on what you read on a message board from anonymous people ("you have just convinced me to send it in.") then that is your own short coming.

Regardless of what you think about me or anyone else, you guys know as well as everyone that you (most of the East pilots) can achieve almost everything you desire (attrition protection, furlough protection, domicile protection, work rule changes, vacation changes, raises beyond what is available in the short term or long term by moving from reserve to block holder etc, and immediate quality of life improvement for your family) through the JNC. The ONLY thing you can't do is reorder the list. If you want to throw away all the benefits available to you and your families in order to make a stand and possibly die on the DOH hill, then so be it. No one is going to be able to talk you out of it anyway. If that is your ultimate goal, the get on with it already and stop the threats.

It is easy to see who is being unreasonable when you look at one side being able to obtain everything they claim to want except one single demand (DOH), and still not willing to compromise. This is why everyone on the outside including me are now saying "adios!" It is not our arrogance, but yours. It is a reaction to your behavior. It is simply the East's consistently unreasonable posture that has provoked us to give up on the lot of you, and makes us want to wash our hands of you. When will you guys stop playing the victim and blaming others, and take ownership of not only your situation but the reaction you are receiving from the rest of the world. When one person cries that everyone else is always at fault, the problem usually lies with that one person. Every rational and pragmatic adult knows this simple truth.

Look, we all understand that this is an emotional issue. But you guys are allowing yourselves to be blinded by your emotion. Here's an idea... negotiate a Joint Contract with all the above benfits and put it out for a practice vote. If a majority of your pilots agree, then ditch your entire LEC and MEC. If it's voted down then decert ALPA and continue on your war path. Just stop the threats and the blaming of others.

 

[Pi brat]

[quote name='767jetz'

"Regardless of what you think about me or anyone else, you guys know as well as everyone that you (most of the East pilots) can achieve almost everything you desire (attrition protection, furlough protection, domicile protection, work rule changes, vacation changes, raises beyond what is available in the short term or long term by moving from reserve to block holder etc, and immediate quality of life improvement for your family) through the JNC. The ONLY thing you can't do is reorder the list. If you want to throw away all the benefits available to you and your families in order to make a stand and possibly die on the DOH hill, then so be it. No one is going to be able to talk you out of it anyway. If that is your ultimate goal, the get on with it already and stop the threats."





This is an interesting thought. How can you, as a UA pilot, tell us what we can get from the JNC process? I have seen nothing from the west MEC that they are willing to give us anything. I believe their stance is "we won't talk until the list is forwared to the company and accepted by the east". Tell us how the world can be perfect if we go along with the west.

Another question. If UA and US merged now and used Nic as a template, how would you see the lst coming out? Top 2000 UA pilots on top of the combined list?

 

[Chipmunk]

Here's what transpired...............

"Waaaaaaa, waaaaaaa, waaaaaaa, DOH, waaaaaaa, waaaaaaaa, career expectation, waaaaaaaaaa, return from furlough as a widebody captain, waaaaaaaaa, waaaaaaa"

Our morons in charge had every GD opportunity to negotiate, but wanted to go to binding arbitration...............stand up and take it like a man - you Azzhats made your bed, now you sleep in it!!! Don't waste time suing AWA MEC, or ALPA. ED BY MOD the USAPA, and all of you ED BY MOD in the union. Our case to the arbitrator was pathetic. Get a hold of the transcripts and read what really happened, not the garbage that Anal Genital put out every day. Look at the facts!!!!! I'm not happy about the outcome, but hey show some integrity.

WHAT WE NEED IS TO START RECALLING THESE EDITED BY MODERATOR !!!!!

The blame rests SOLELY on YOU!!!!!

EDITED BY MODERATOR from CLT

MOD NOTE: Those who read the original post now know what you need to do to get moderator preview or a suspension....

 

[Pi brat]

Here's what transpired...............

"Waaaaaaa, waaaaaaa, waaaaaaa, DOH, waaaaaaa, waaaaaaaa, career expectation, waaaaaaaaaa, return from furlough as a widebody captain, waaaaaaaaa, waaaaaaa"
QUOTE EDITED BY MODERATOR--see above for reason

We have missed you JM

 

[electricjet98]

"Regardless of what you think about me or anyone else, you guys know as well as everyone that you (most of the East pilots) can achieve almost everything you desire (attrition protection, furlough protection, domicile protection, work rule changes, vacation changes, raises beyond what is available in the short term or long term by moving from reserve to block holder etc, and immediate quality of life improvement for your family) through the JNC. The ONLY thing you can't do is reorder the list. If you want to throw away all the benefits available to you and your families in order to make a stand and possibly die on the DOH hill, then so be it. No one is going to be able to talk you out of it anyway. If that is your ultimate goal, the get on with it already and stop the threats."

This is an interesting thought. How can you, as a UA pilot, tell us what we can get from the JNC process? I have seen nothing from the west MEC that they are willing to give us anything. I believe their stance is "we won't talk until the list is forwared to the company and accepted by the east". Tell us how the world can be perfect if we go along with the west.

Well, if you don't mind to much, I'd like to jump in here. I think that one paragraph from 767jetz that you quoted pretty well sums-up how the west and probably most of ALPA feels. As far as the JNC process goes...we're not the ones that have abandoned the process by resolution from the MEC; so you can hardly say that we are the ones that "won't talk"! As for how "protections" are concerned, I believe they will be included in the final, close-out phase of the JNC; but the east has to get past all of these chest-pounding, feel-good, dead-end distrations FIRST! Yes, that includes ALPA forwarding the list to Parker since that is just one more distraction that is sending your guys down various roads in an effort to overturn or make irrelavent, rather than concentrating on making the company pay for their "synergies"! It also includes the dim-witted, time-consuming and costly lawsuit perpetuated by the east MEC against the west MEC. And lastly, it includes the hollow, poorly thought-out threat of decertification. All of this is mindless, knuckle-dragging bravado that has gotten you nowhere in the past and will get you nowhere in the present or future.

 

[EastUS]

QUOTE(a320av8r @ Aug 22 2007, 09:15 AM)
I too have been waiting to see what happens before sending my card. You have just convinced me to send it in. You can have ALPA to yourselves.
BTW, it'll be about 6000 mainline pilots including the AWA pilots.
Thanks for the encouragement."

Adios amigo!


But if you're that confident, then have at it. If you make life decisions based on what you read on a message board from anonymous people ("you have just convinced me to send it in.") then that is your own short coming.

"If you make life decisions based on what you read on a message board from anonymous people"

Coming from you? = That's light years past hilarious. Isn't that EXACTLY what your continuous flow of disinformation and Alpoid propaganda's attempting to do? Sorry if it has an effect other than that which you would wish for.

"Adios amigo!"/Alpo

 

[EastUS]

[ All of this is mindless, knuckle-dragging bravado that has gotten you nowhere in the past and will get you nowhere in the present or future.

Funny thing about "knuckle-dragging bravado" though....I still don't see any west folk in east seats.

Today's certainty is that the St Nic gift's yet staying in it's wrapping paper. The only thing certain about the future is that it's wholly unknown. You've no finer crystal ball than any hereabouts.

 

[USA320Pilot]

Here is the bottom line. The vast majority of East pilots believe they will be better of by not agreeing to a joint contract and keeping their seniority intact. The East pilots would rather live under LOA 93 and not have the Nicolau Award forwarded then obtain a joint contract and see their seniority trashed. In fact, the Permanent Bid released today clearly shows the importance of their attrtion-based career expectation.

In fact, US Airways ALPA Communications Committee Chairman Arnie Gentile told the AP yesterday, "Our pilots would probably take less money until hell freezes over than implement that" seniority policy.

See Story

Furthermore, it appears that Doug Parker, John Prater, the ALPA EC, and the Rice Committee clearly understands the issues and problems. Who does not? The AWA MEC and its pilots (and 767jetz too).

Also noteworthy, every other ALPA group should understand the importance of the issues because I believe without a "realistic solution" to the Nicolau Award there will be no contract improvements for other airline pilots because management will want to match US Airways' pilot costs.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[electricjet98]

Today's certainty is that the St Nic gift's yet staying in it's wrapping paper.

As is parity and any improvements from LOA 93.

Look, I am a proponent of the MEC's and JNC finding some middle-ground so that both pilot groups can make career and financial advancements. But, I don't see anything happening until all of the distractions and dead-end alternative routes are eliminated. The sooner the east MEC see the ultimate futility of their actions, the sooner we will be able to join together as a forcefull group that management will have to contend with. Sure, you may see some temporary gains until this plays out. I just think before any of us see any meaningful and permanent improvements to our CBA, we will need to get to the JNC end-game. Until then, we are all the pathetic, laughing stock of airline management teams world-wide.

 

[prechilill]

Here is the bottom line. The vast majority of East pilots believe they will be better of by not agreeing to a joint contract and keeping their seniority intact. The East pilots would rather live under LOA 93 and not have the Nicolau Award forwarded then obtain a joint contract and see their seniority trashed. In fact, the Permanent Bid released today clearly shows the importance of their attrtion-based career expectation.

In fact, US Airways ALPA Communications Committee Chairman Arnie Gentile told the AP yesterday, "Our pilots would probably take less money until hell freezes over than implement that" seniority policy.

See Story

Furthermore, it appears that Doug Parker, John Prater, the ALPA EC, and the Rice Committee clearly understands the issues and problems. Who does not? The AWA MEC and its pilots (and 767jetz too).

Also noteworthy, every other ALPA group should understand the importance of the issues because I believe without a "realistic solution" to the Nicolau Award there will be no contract improvements for other airline pilots because management will want to match US Airways' pilot costs.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

Every man is entitled to an opinion and you certainly have your share. The problem seen by those names cited in your post above all recognize this same problem and it is not the Nicolau award. Eventually, cooler, more collective heads will prevail and the recalcitrant minority of your union leadership will eventually march a forced retreat into the world of message boards and anonymous letters left behind in cockpits speaking of revolution and defiance to the end. You should be good at this kind of stuff, Chip. The question is, when will you meet reality and understand the damage you are doing to yourself, your career earnings and the success and prosperity of your employer.

 

[USA320Pilot]

Prechillill,

What you do not understand is that the majority of East pilots believe they will be better off by preventing the Nicolau Award from being implemented than obtaining a joint contract and having the Nicolau Award implemented.

Furthermore, the East pilots do not want to take any pre-merger AWA flying away from the AWA pilots. The US Airways pilots only want to keep their flying. If the West would agree to throw out the Nicolau Award, create permanent a permanent fence at the Mississippi River, and negotiate scope protections then we could obtain a joint contract.

This would preserve everybody's pre-merger career expectation and provide contract improvements.

Regards,

USA320Pilot