Pilots want a Raise

[pilot]

You seem so narrow mind in your thought pattern. Have you ever thought of yourself as "just another employee"? I doubt it, but that is what you are. Sorry to bust your bubble. You work for the same company that I do, yet you seem to think that you are somehow better than than the other folks here. Maybe I feel thats it's just not about me and before I tell everyone that I want a raise, that I want to see more progress( and I don't mean by asking for more givebacks). Sure, we all gave alot back to get were we are today, but at the first sign of a profit, I'm not theatening,"give me a raise or else". That is that you are sounding like. Everyone is going to want a raise and we all definately deserve it.Maybe instead of you getting your raise, we could hire back some of the utility people who really gave back, with their jobs. Sometimes I feel as though I am typing with Charles Lindbergh or one of the Wright brothers on here. It's amazing.

I agree. Amazing.

You equate your profession with utility.

My profession is somewhat more responsible and complicated than utility. Apparently you don't think so. You frame this discussion as about "me". Try to get this straight. This is about OUR profession. Not me. Not you. Not anyone in particular. The profession. Problem with your GAG is that they don't think of it as a profession.

Truly it is Amazing.

pilot

 

[N109UW]

I agree. Amazing.

You equate your profession with utility.

My profession is somewhat more responsible and complicated than utility. Apparently you don't think so. You frame this discussion as about "me". Try to get this straight. This is about OUR profession. Not me. Not you. Not anyone in particular. The profession. Problem with your GAG is that they don't think of it as a profession.

Truly it is Amazing.

pilot

This seems to be tough for you to accept. You are just part of the same team as everyone else. I equate the profession with all employees groups, agents, flight attendants, mechanics. Is there a reason that you think you are any better than these people. Are you that self absorbed to really believe that? I guess I am just not that impressed at being a pilot. Sorry, just my feelings. I don't feel as though I am better than you or anyone else here. Aim high. Some people need that feeling, others don't, thankfully.

 

[fatherabraham]

I equate the profession with all employees groups, agents, flight attendants, mechanics. Is there a reason that you think you are any better than these people. Are you that self absorbed to really believe that? I guess I am just not that impressed at being a pilot. Sorry, just my feelings. I don't feel as though I am better than you or anyone else here. Aim high. Some people need that feeling, others don't, thankfully.

109,

Not to interfere with your ongoing debate, but i think your personal attack is wrong. Read his post. He is defending a profession that he most likely struggled long and hard to achieve with the requisite sacrifices. His opinion is also valid as well as yours. Difference is, his vote does not have negative consequences on undeserving co-workers that may ( by the stroke of luck ) be seniority challenged. You give me the impression of willing to sacrifice those below as a " I've got mine " kind of guy.
Hope I am wrong and you just have displaced morals.

FA

 

[N109UW]

109,

Not to interfere with your ongoing debate, but i think your personal attack is wrong. Read his post. He is defending a profession that he most likely struggled long and hard to achieve with the requisite sacrifices. His opinion is also valid as well as yours. Difference is, his vote does not have negative consequences on undeserving co-workers that may ( by the stroke of luck ) be seniority challenged. You give me the impression of willing to sacrifice those below as a " I've got mine " kind of guy.
Hope I am wrong and you just have displaced morals.

FA

Not sure what you mean by "undeserving co-workers"? Honestly, I would never want anyone to have to suffer through what I or we have. And that means any work group, not just pilots, but everyone. Because in the end, we all sacraficed to get were we are. In all honesty, I do respect his opinion and yours as well.

 

[FM2436]

Here's a solution that should please everyone. If what Doug Parkers says is true and US Airways has 35,000 employees, how about this equation.

35,000 employees X 2080 hours in a working year = 72,800,000 hours X $0.07 = $5,096,000.

Let US Airways begin by giving all 35,000 US Airways employees a 7 cent per hour pay raise. At least the 1stQ prohits will cover that added annual cost increase.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Sounds good to me - any raise is better than no raise.

Personally I don't see this issue as a zero-sum game where somebody getting a bigger slice of the pie means someone else has to settle for a smaller piece. Every employee that doesn't have a title in front of their name deserves more than they're getting now.

Jim

 

[john john]

where somebody getting a bigger slice of the pie means someone else has to settle for a smaller piece.

This happen to customer service agents for years.

 

[N109UW]

Sounds good to me - any raise is better than no raise.

Personally I don't see this issue as a zero-sum game where somebody getting a bigger slice of the pie means someone else has to settle for a smaller piece. Every employee that doesn't have a title in front of their name deserves more than they're getting now.

Jim

You're exactly right Jim. We all deserve an equal piece of the pie. Everyone at this company has given enough. It is time to start a turn around, but equally shared among all.

 

[fatherabraham]

You're exactly right Jim. We all deserve an equal piece of the pie. Everyone at this company has given enough. It is time to start a turn around, but equally shared among all.

Sorry guys but I cannot agree. This is not a comunist economy. Shall I instruct my H.S. graduating senior to forego his/her ambitions and settle for cutting grass as a profession? Afterall, you think they then deserve the same payoff of subsequent raise that the lawn care manager gets or the owner. Give me a break.

FA

 

[ALCARLOS]

With all the unemployed pilots available, why would a raise be given to those working. The pressure is to lower labor costs. Are we loking for USAirways to be just a marketing company?

 

[BoeingBoy]

Sorry guys but I cannot agree. This is not a comunist economy.

fatherabraham,

Don't read something into what I said that isn't there. Consider the definition of "equal"....

I suspect that members of all the East employee groups (unionized, at least) have taken somewhere between 40% and 100% compensation cuts(just semantics, JS). That's about "equal". So in a perfect world, gains in compensation should be similiarly "equal" - percentage.

If someone wants to talk about "equal" absolute dollar value of increases, then let's talk about absolute dollar value of concessions and see how "equal" that was.

My response to FM2436 was based on the small amount of the increase he proposed. If you split it up based on percentage of pay, it's still a very small amount - not enough to be worth getting my knickers in a wad over how it's divided.

Jim

 

[N109UW]

Sorry guys but I cannot agree. This is not a comunist economy. Shall I instruct my H.S. graduating senior to forego his/her ambitions and settle for cutting grass as a profession? Afterall, you think they then deserve the same payoff of subsequent raise that the lawn care manager gets or the owner. Give me a break.

FA

So you're saying that my buddy, who cuts grass and has developed that into a successful landscaping business should never have started cutting grass. Intereting.

 

[PITbull]

Sorry guys but I cannot agree. This is not a comunist economy. Shall I instruct my H.S. graduating senior to forego his/her ambitions and settle for cutting grass as a profession? Afterall, you think they then deserve the same payoff of subsequent raise that the lawn care manager gets or the owner. Give me a break.

FA

I can't speak for N109, but an equal piece of the pie means to me everyone partaking in receiving increases and wages and provision enhancements. For different groups that has different meaning with different values.
As an example, I don't believe that nurses and surgeons who are employed at a hospital should receive the same equal pay or increase in salary.

Folks need to get real. I was a f/a, and not qualified to fly an jumbo jet. Therefore, I should not expect the same wage as a pilot or mechanic for that matter.

If anyone believes that all groups need to be paid equally and get the same increase is delusional at best. That idea isn't even worth the discussion.

However, when there are certain groups able to receive increases, even managment, then all groups should be given increases. Conversely, when there are times of concessions, all groups INCLUDING MANAGMENT SHOULD TAKE CONCESSIONS, however, not evenly, as f/as and pilots do not make the same salary etc.., but rather in proportion to what that particular group can negotiate and still sustain a livable wage and relative to their skill. And I am not convinced that concessions alone save any business. If there is no change to the business plan, then concessions is just piss in the wind.You can do business the same way over and over again expecting a change in the outcome.

If there is ever a concession again, there should be a "snap back"provision that is triggered when management receives an increase in compensation, whether it be salary, bonus, or stock. I believe there may have been more employee support for a temporary "give back" vs. permanent. I also think there would have been less of a morale problem. Not forcing this provision was labor's biggest mistake.

Hopefully, we have all learned from the BK dance how to negotiate in the future.

 

[N109UW]

I am not saying that everyone deserves the same pay. All I was saying was it should be the same percentage wise. I am sure that won't sit well with some, but in the whole scope of things, it will work out. And by improvements, that doesn't necessarily mean pay.

 

[fatherabraham]

So you're saying that my buddy, who cuts grass and has developed that into a successful landscaping business should never have started cutting grass. Intereting.

109,
You did not read my post or taking the liberty of adding your ideas as mine. My very good friend is in the lawn care business and quite successful. His hard work has paid off.
I was responding to the overall idea of giving all the same 7cents per hour. Talking % is quite a different story.
No argument there. PitBull as usual the voice of reason.

BoeingBoy....read a ton of your post and nearly all agree you are a very reasonable man of intelligence. Never for a moment took your post literally as I know your style.