Pilots Sue Airlines And Thier Union

[fatherabraham]

[I don't think it's frustration either BTW, Seems more like blood boiling anger at being thrown under the bus yet again by the top of the seniority list in ALPA. An organization that has NEVER met a junior pilot it couldn't or wouldn't throw under the bus.
:down:

If you're on the bottom half of an ALPA seniority list I would urge you to take a more active role in your union. It's still in many cases one person one vote and if you get active you CAN change your union for the better
[/quote]

Bob,

Have to agree with you here. Recently saw the numbers of a " less senior " furloughed pilot in the seniority number range of around 4800. His projected sen. # at age 55 is less than 100 and top ten at age 60. These calculations were based on alpa (east) projections ( not included awa list ) and not subjective.

The top half will gladly (per past practice) " throw them under bus" if any crumbs fall their way.
Looks as if AWA pilots will not hesitate either.

FA

 

[luvn737s]

The junior ALPA guys seemed to mobilize sufficiently to quash the reversal of the Age60 rule. Too bad too, since it may take pilots many years to get back to the left seat of a major and they may face forced retirement before that happens. A couple of years could make a big difference, but they didn't see it that way.

 

[Furloughedagain]

I've been trying to get ahold of Dave (Scott) Booie over at MidAtlantic. He and I worked together at Comair after our US Airways furlough until we both came to our senses.

If anyone has the ability to get Scott a message, maybe you could PM me an email address or telephone number for him?

Thanks!

 

[aquagreen73s]

I would hope so. They only have twenty days to do so once they were served the Complaint.

Right on Hp/fa...under Rule 12(a)(1)(A) of the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure, the defendant shall serve an answer within 20 days after being served with teh summons and complaint or...

under 12(a)(1)(B): "If service of the summons has been timely waived on request under Rule 4(d), within 60 days after the date when teh request for waiver was sent..."

I'd imagine the defendants waived service to get the extra time to respond. Does anyone know which District Court the complaint was filed in?

PineyBob:

According to ALPA's Legal Counsel and provided by the MEC's communication chairman, "We believe that their (MDA pilot) allegations are totally without merit."

After hearing about the suit from professional's, I'm not very worried for ALPA or its members.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

Then ALPO will have no problem getting a dismissal and under Rule 11( C) of the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure, could get sanctions against the MDA attorneys. But let's be realistic...I doubt the MDA attorneys would file a complaint without evidentiary support for the allegation. The ALPO attorneys are welcome to believe whatever they like; after all they have the luxury of sitting in Herndon, collecting a fat pay check and never litigating. In a military squadron, they would be known as "desk jockies."

 

[foreright]

The junior ALPA guys seemed to mobilize sufficiently to quash the reversal of the Age60 rule. Too bad too, since it may take pilots many years to get back to the left seat of a major and they may face forced retirement before that happens. A couple of years could make a big difference, but they didn't see it that way.

A perfect example of wanting to eat thier young. Do you really believe that with nearly 2000 on furlough that extending the age 60 rule would be good for anyone other than the top third? :down:
ALL OR NONE!

 

[hp_fa]

Then ALPO will have no problem getting a dismissal and under Rule 11( C) of the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure, could get sanctions against the MDA attorneys. But let's be realistic...I doubt the MDA attorneys would file a complaint without evidentiary support for the allegation. The ALPO attorneys are welcome to believe whatever they like; after all they have the luxury of sitting in Herndon, collecting a fat pay check and never litigating. In a military squadron, they would be known as "desk jockies."

A Motion For Judgment On The Pleadings is very hard to obtain. All disputed facts must be viewed in support of the party defending the Motion For Judgment On The Pleadings. A Motion For Summary Judgment is easier to get, but still very difficult.

I have not seen the Complaint, but I seem to recall reading somewhere that it contained supporting data as part of the pleading. If that understanding is correct, it is unlikely that the plaintiffs believe they have a weak case and it is also unlikely that any judgment for the main defendant(s) will be coming any time soon.

 

[SoldWholeSale]

The suit is posted on the AAA ALPA site, why don't you post it here for everyone to see how merritless the MDA pilots suit really is Mr.USA320Pilot..... Notice in the code-a-phone, that ALPA has plans to do what ever is required to protect the union. At any point, have they ever drawn the line and said they would do whatever it takes to protect or even adequately represent the MDA pilots? He11 no! Thus, 289 plaintiffs....

The MDA pilots aren't hurt over being furloughed yet again, most have been several times and have finally accepted it as part of AAA ALPA "doing whatever it takes" to save their own pay and position by sacrificing the junior pilots. The MDA pilots are actually at the point where they are fighting mad due to the lack of integrity, honesty, and any sort of accountability on the part of the pilots union. There are 10 complaints, they were filed in NY, and CT district court. Seven of the ten are completely documented on either ALPA stationary, or USAirways stationary, or both, and do not need to be proven, only entered as evidence. The other three, will after exploration, and the validity of the other seven, be given their chances in court and have better than a 50/50 chance by anyone other than you who has actually seen the filing.

both HP_fa, and Aquagreen are mostly correct in what has been discussed at our level. Due to the supporting documentation, there is little or no chance of the suit being dismissed. The $400 million, is only one complaint against the union. Remember, there are ten complaints. The total of the ten is actually $3.2 Billion! ;-) The folks at MDA have learned over the years to hedge their bets when dealing with the union...... There are five separate DFR suits against ALPO National, and the Chairman is the only individual named(let the AAA MEC Chairman explain away their actions to his boss). There are 3 against the company, with only "declatory judgement" sought, and one against all parties for an injunction against the Republic/MDA transaction until at least a ruling is made on the arbitration (this is something ALPA said they would do on the behalf of the 170 pilots - you can guess what one DFR is about). The biggie, is the RICO, and it has teeth for both the union and the company. Sure, it may be a long road, but RICO isn't just civil, its criminal and they will have more than just 289 plaintiffs at MDA to worry about. You can't "legal to death" the Federal Government.

So in short.... BRING IT ON! -- Just remember, dishonesty while under oath in district court is even worse than furlough for ones career.

ALL OR NONE!

SH

 

[BoeingBoy]

Any of the E-170 folks can correct me if I'm wrong, but from my perspective ALPA could have prevented this whole fiasco with one simple action.

When it became obvious that MDA was not going to have it's own certificate, ALPA should have filed for single carrier status for MDA/US. Not doing that, then continuing to perpertrate the myth that MDA was separate, led directly to the present state of affairs.

Jim

 

[delldude]

i see this thread has made it 14 pages already and weren't there dire predictions as to the fate of those who dared to challenge both their union and company in court?
have there been any reports of pilots drawn and quartered?

 

[BoeingBoy]

have there been any reports of pilots drawn and quartered?

Only in the fertile imaginations of some......



Jim

 

[Furloughedagain]

Bet I can rub my magic 8-ball and predict his response:

"...I strongly believe there will be multiple counter lawsuits filed against the 270 MDA pilots..."

"...The only thing I know for sure is that this is going to get ugly..."

"...Do I like this? No, of course not, but it is what it is..."

"...do not "shoot the messenger"..."

"...a program where furloughed pilots could obtain turbojet pilot-in-command (PIC) time so these pilots could get hired at JetBlue..."

"... I would not want to be a co-pilot who sued the captain, which would not be a good experience for the newly recalled pilot..."

"...this has opened up a can of worms and I hope each MDA pilot who is party to the suit has a lot, I mean a lot, of money for personal legal fees..."

Did 8-ball predict the future -- or does he just repeat himself so much that the above responses were the best bet?

 

[SoldWholeSale]

Any of the E-170 folks can correct me if I'm wrong, but from my perspective ALPA could have prevented this whole fiasco with one simple action.

When it became obvious that MDA was not going to have it's own certificate, ALPA should have filed for single carrier status for MDA/US. Not doing that, then continuing to perpertrate the myth that MDA was separate, led directly to the present state of affairs.

Jim

Jim,

You are exactly correct..... Had that have happened, there would have been NO issues of any kind. However, when the MEC tried to cover up lies with lies, and drag things out hoping it would all go to Republic and die, and cover inaction with code-a-phone messages, they get what they got.

I hope the rest of the mainline group can see through the bull as well as you have.

ALL OR NONE!

SH

 

[Viper16]

MEC CODE-A-PHONE UPDATE - October 22, 2005

This is Jack Stephan with a US Airways MEC update for Saturday, October 22.

ALPA and your elected representatives continue to work diligently to protect the rights of all US Airways pilots, including MDA pilots. As a result, we are disappointed that 241 MDA pilots have brought a lawsuit against ALPA among other parties. We believe that their allegations are totally without merit, and we will vigorously defend your union against these claims. We will provide further updates on this litigation when available. This lawsuit is available under "What's New" on the pilots only home page. This is a large file, so we recommend that you right click on the link and save the file to view.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

Instead of posting other peoples information why don't you respond to questions asked of you directly. Have you had time to formulate a response to my Oct 16th post that refuted some of your comments regarding the MDA pilots?

 

[aquagreen73s]

I didn't realized RICO was a cause of action in a civil claim. Holy Cow....check out the damages provision!

From ricopact.com:


In 1970, Congress passed the Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations (RICO) Act, Title 18, United States Code, Sections 1961-1968. At the time, Congress' goal was to eliminate the ill-affects of organized crime on the nation's economy. To put it bluntly, RICO was intended to destroy the Mafia.

Throughout the 1970's, RICO's intended purpose and its actual use ran parallel to each other. Seldom was RICO used outside of the context of the Mafia, and it is not an overstatement to say that civil claims under RICO were simply not brought.

In the 1980's, however, civil lawyers noticed section 1964© of the RICO Act, which allows civil claims to be brought by any person injured in their business or property by reason of a RICO violation. Any person who succeeded in establishing a civil RICO claim would automatically receive judgment in the amount of three times their actual damages and would be awarded their costs and attorneys' fees. The financial windfall available under RICO inspired the creativity of lawyers across the nation, and by the late 1980's, RICO was a (if not the most) commonly asserted claim in federal court. Everyone was trying to depict civil claims, such as common law fraud, product defect, and breach of contract as criminal wrongdoing, which would in turn enable the filing of a civil RICO action.

RICO's broad application was the result of Congress' inclusion of mail and wire fraud as two crimes upon which a RICO claim could be brought. Given the breadth of activities that had historically been criminally prosecuted under the mail and wire fraud statutes, it was not difficult for creative civil attorneys to depict practically any wrongdoing as mail or wire fraud.

During the 1990's, the federal courts, guided by the United States Supreme Court, engaged in a concerted effort to limit the scope of RICO in the civil context. As a result of this effort, civil litigants must jump many hurdles and avoid many pitfalls before they can expect the financial windfall available under RICO, and RICO has become one of the most complicated and unpredictable areas of the law.

Today, RICO is almost never applied to the Mafia. Instead, it is applied to individuals, businesses, political protest groups, and terrorist organizations. In short, a RICO claim can arise in almost any context.

 

[195PILOT]

How is the health of the MDA Pilots around the 22nd of NOV? I hope all MDA pilot will have a healthy Thanks Giving.