Pilots not allowed to have enough fuel?

[EastUS]

Those pilots should share what they know because maybe my captain tonight will put on less fuel because of something he wasn't aware of.

"that would be SOME pilots, do engage in intentual fuel burning and they have been reported and called-in in the past" "Called in"? That's news to me, but even if at all true: WHAT does that have to do with any supposed "Training"?

"I do not know who these pilots are."..BUT..we should all cheerfully support their "Right" to be suspected of some wrong doing?..Because some "friend" of yours saiys so? I just love this sort of "reasoning" = ANYONE has the "Right" to be a "Suspect"..and all that's needed is for ANYONE else to cry "Witch!".."Heretic!!"..or even just have a "friend" that does so..and The Inquisition's "properly" ON!!!..

"Maybe they do have the best and safest intentions in mind, But if not then what harm is it to find out."...."If they are doing nothing then let's find out."
What's your suggestion? Waterboarding?...Electrodes?..What? Vee haff Vays uf making you talk?? It scarely takes any lenghty inquisition to realize that 15 or so more minutes of fuel..over a minimum of a 7 hour leg...isn't any excessive increase, and a mutlitude of factors can not only justify such as a very rational act, but even reasonably demand it being done.

"If they are doing nothing then let's find out." Who's "let's" in this case? Are you qualified to evaluate fuel planning issues, or is it sufficient that you've a "friend" that shot off his/her mouth for you to accuse, or even be reasonably concerned? Feel free to bring your "friend' forward, and I'm sure many will be all ears as to that person's take on the issue...and why...

"Those pilots should share what they know because maybe my captain tonight will put on less fuel because of something he wasn't aware of."Less fuel?..I thought you were upset about adding fuel...? That makes almost as much sense as your rather strange, slide deployment comparison. You might wish to reconsider that particularly bizarre "example" of yours. I'd submit that having all the slides dragging outside the plane would increase the drag a bit, and consequently the fuel consumption.

 

[freedom]

2008 = a 2 billion dollar loss ….


If we have around 2.5 billion dollars in 2008 and we lose 2 billion , how much does that leave us for 2009 ?

Answer , 500 million dollars ….


There will be no pay increases for ANY work group on the property that hasn’t already been agreed upon in a labor agreement …


I don’t even think it’s stepping out on a branch to say that in 2009 we will most likely return to BK , and those of us who managed to get out of our BK agreements may end up back in them .


reality reminder from your friend freedom .

 

[EastUS]

reality reminder from your friend freedom .

..And this latest, brilliantly in-depth analysis of how All Things Work...from the perspective of a twenty-something, non-pilot, airline "newbie"....has exactly WHAT to do with fuel planning and flight management? Seriously..You need professional help...badly. Failing your seeing any need for that..the good news is that your perspectives will change over time..and you'll notice that life does go...even if you can't possibly imagine any such thing now. Get some help or at least relaxe a bit...No ones' shooting at you, you've got enough food, and even shelter for now, so take things a bit easier...It all worlks out.

 

[luvthe9]

His/her actions are subject to audit and review. These are normal checks and balances. The pilot is not a "god" who can never be questioned. NO ONE has a job like that, they don't exist.

Suppose a pilot decides to fly to LGA in lieu of EWR, on his "final authority", just because he didn't want to fly to EWR. Are you telling me this is ok? Of course not. Suppose a pilot opts for enough fuel to fly PHL-LAX when he's simply flying PHL-PIT. Is this ok? Of course not. Sure, he has the "authority" to make the decision while the flight is in operation (pre-flight, in-flight and post-flight), but his actions are subject to review.

Your kidding right, or you don't have a cure about aviation, they have to be the dumbest questions on the board. Your right pilot are not gods, all we want to do is get you from A to B as safley as possible.

 

[Phoenix]

...
I do not know who these pilots are. ..

If they are doing nothing then let's find out...

Yes, we don't know who these pilots are. Not even that much has been established as fact.

What we do know is that the company spokes person in "Setting the Record Straight
July 16, 2008" attempted to paint a different picture regarding the required training.

Through the normal tracking of our landing weight and fuel burn, we recently discovered that a few of our pilots (eight to be exact) were adding fuel to their dispatched fuel loads much more frequently than their peers. While this is appropriate as our pilots always have the ability to order more fuel as conditions warrant, the data for this small number of pilots was well in excess of the norm.

As we would anytime there is data that indicates employees feel they must go well beyond the standard protocols over a consistent period of time in order to do their jobs effectively, we asked these pilots to meet with our training department so we could understand their experiences and ensure that our current protocols are at the right levels. This is entirely appropriate and indeed the responsible way to bring line experiences into the classroom so that our training programs are improved as a result.

On that happy note, we can all feel good because the company was calling in these eight senior pilots (who by the company's account are allegedly extremely abnormal) to ask them for advice on how to improve the training program.

"If they are doing nothing then let's find out..."

I'm sorry but that sounds like, "Let's have a witch hunt."

 

[freedom]

..And this latest, brilliantly in-depth analysis of how All Things Work...from the perspective of a twenty-something, non-pilot, airline "newbie"....has exactly WHAT to do with fuel planning and flight management? Seriously..You need professional help...badly. Failing your seeing any need for that..the good news is that your perspectives will change over time..and you'll notice that life does go...even if you can't possibly imagine any such thing now. Get some help or at least relaxe a bit...No ones' shooting at you, you've got enough food, and even shelter for now, so take things a bit easier...It all worlks out.

Well I MAY be young and inexperienced , but I’m at least not so STOOPID to take out a full page add destroying the flying publics trust in our airline ……


You see if people are scared to fly on us , they won’t DUHHHH , and that means DUHHHH that we won’t make money DUHHHH and that means DUHHHH that we will go out of business …..

(I added the DUHHH’s to more effectively speak your language )



If we DO go out of business , I won’t have nearly as hard a time finding employment as you old folks …

I hate to sound ageist because I’m truly not , but I am aware of the job discrimination that goes on in the world around us …. If us airways goes under , you hardened veterans are going to have a hell of a time finding work and it’’s going to be hardest on our female FA’s …

i'm not worried about MY future half what you would think , but i don't intend to allow foolish people to actively destory the job i'm at .

 

[luvthe9]

2008 = a 2 billion dollar loss ….


If we have around 2.5 billion dollars in 2008 and we lose 2 billion , how much does that leave us for 2009 ?

Answer , 500 million dollars ….


There will be no pay increases for ANY work group on the property that hasn’t already been agreed upon in a labor agreement …


I don’t even think it’s stepping out on a branch to say that in 2009 we will most likely return to BK , and those of us who managed to get out of our BK agreements may end up back in them .


reality reminder from your friend freedom .

Don't you think that AWA would have been much better off without this merger? Would you not like to separate from the East?

 

[EastUS]

I'm sorry but that sounds like, "Let's have a witch hunt."

None ever did it beter than the Pythons

http://youtube.com/watch?v=fr8DIg3oHFI

 

[freedom]

Don't you think that AWA would have been much better off without this merger?

Is that a serious question ?


Most of us are positive that awa would be a memory by now , and several people are of the mind that without the merger us airways would be a goner by now as well .

 

[luvthe9]

Is that a serious question ?


Most of us are positive that awa would be a memory by now , and several people are of the mind that without the merger us airways would be a goner by now as well .

YES, Would you not like to separate from the East?

 

[N965VJ]

<SNIP> If us airways goes under , you hardened veterans are going to have a hell of a time finding work and it’’s going to be hardest on our female FA’s …

Gloria Holtz says thanx, but she’s doing just fine. Remember, Mr. Holtz bought her a Lexus last December.


This post is double ROT-13 encrypted to abate the snoops in Tempe.

 

[EastUS]

Well I MAY be young and inexperienced , but I’m at least not so STOOPID to take out a full page add destroying the flying publics trust in our airline ……

"Well I MAY be young and inexperienced ,.." No kidding?

"but I'm at least not so STOOPID .." I believe that notion , like any/all postings from anyone, is for individual readers to properly evaluate for themselves.

Next Case.

 

[freedom]

"Well I MAY be young and inexperienced ,.." No kidding?

"but I’m at least not so STOOPID .." I believe that notion , like any/all postings from anyone, is for individual readers to properly evaluate themselves.

Next Case.

Gee , it took me about 5 seconds of reading the full page add to realize it was going to erode the public’s trust in our company ….


Do you want that I should go and copy the ad and post it here ? I can show you line by line how a normal person would read it and I can EXPLAIN to you how it negatively effects public perception of our company ….


Your position is so weak it’s a joke . but hey , that’s what happens when you do stupid things and try to defend them by going “but , but but but…..â€￾

 

[ussnark]

Through the normal tracking of our landing weight and fuel burn, we recently discovered that a few of our pilots (eight to be exact) were adding fuel to their dispatched fuel loads much more frequently than their peers. While this is appropriate as our pilots always have the ability to order more fuel as conditions warrant, the data for this small number of pilots was well in excess of the norm.

As we would anytime there is data that indicates employees feel they must go well beyond the standard protocols over a consistent period of time in order to do their jobs effectively, we asked these pilots to meet with our training department so we could understand their experiences and ensure that our current protocols are at the right levels. This is entirely appropriate and indeed the responsible way to bring line experiences into the classroom so that our training programs are improved as a result.

I'm sorry but that sounds like, "Let's have a witch hunt."

So, of all the 767 pilots in PHL, eight were adding fuel (no specified amount) more frequently than their peers. So, it is about the frequency of adding fuel and not the amount.

They were tracking "landing weight" and "fuel burn"? Was the fuel burn compared to computer fuel burn? Seeing how these alleged vertebrates compare and contrast numbers, I doubt it. Landing weight? As long as one doesn't exceed max landing weight, puts in a write-up if one does or doesn't flame out taxing to the ramp, what, exactly does this tell one? Can one tell how much holding was done? Unlikely.

Some much has been left non-specific that the phrase, "witch hunt", was the first thing that came to my mind. It reminded me of Salem, if you drown in the dunking chair, you were innocent. Yeah, baby, we have really come a long way. NOT!

PS I bet they bought the captain dinner when his plane shutdown a TA flight with less than 2500 lbs. That is the dude I would want in training.

 

[sharktooth]

Gee , it took me about 5 seconds of reading the full page add to realize it was going to erode the public’s trust in our company ….

So, you judge without reading.

Son, you are going to go blind drinking all that koolaide.