No Mediation For Pilots

[WingNaPrayer]

My reply was pure supposition and never did I say it was the judge's order so stop running wtih scissors already . .. both of you!

Sheeesh!

But only a fool would believe a judge isn't thinking something just because he doesn't say it!

 

[TWAnr]

By the way - any insight on why the case was reassigned to Judge Gershon about 6 months before the decision was handed down?

Cases filed in federal courts are randomly assigned to judges. The TWA flight attendants case was originally assigned to Judge Amon, who ruled on the request for the injunction to stop the furlough. When the Marcoux case was filed by nAAtive flight attendants to overturn the procedurally flawed RPA vote, it was assigned to Judge Gershon. It was soon determined that the two cases had may issues in common and for judicial expediency and economy, the chief judge reassigned the TWA case to be heard by Judge Gershon.

My reply was pure supposition and never did I say it was the judge's order so stop running wtih scissors already . .. both of you!

Sheeesh!

But only a fool would believe a judge isn't thinking something just because he doesn't say it!

You wrote your original post as if you were citing facts, not making suppositions and speculations:

That's why the judge dismissed and no other reason.

Nice try, but your attempt to save your credibility only reinforces your already challenged credibility.

By the way, the judge is a SHE, not a HE.

 

[eolesen]

So what would cause fed mediators to refuse to help referree the negotiations?

Well, there hasn't been a whole lot of negotiating going on... They exchanged openers in Sept 2006, but the first 9 months were spent with a lame duck negotiating committee in anticipation of the APA's election in June 2007, and then APA said they needed another two months to re-establish a negotiating committee. They then took off most of December, and didn't return to the table until January 8th.

So, in the 16 calendar months they've been "negotiating", there were 12 months of pretty much doing nothing.

I would't expect the NMB to waste their time and resources until there's a little more of a demonstrated effort by both sides.

 

[FWAAA]

Well, there hasn't been a whole lot of negotiating going on... They exchanged openers in Sept 2006, but the first 9 months were spent with a lame duck negotiating committee in anticipation of the APA's election in June 2007, and then APA said they needed another two months to re-establish a negotiating committee. They then took off most of December, and didn't return to the table until January 8th.

So, in the 16 calendar months they've been "negotiating", there were 12 months of pretty much doing nothing.

I would't expect the NMB to waste their time and resources until there's a little more of a demonstrated effort by both sides.

Good point. Not much real negotiation has happened yet - so no need to waste the mediator's time.

Today's Dallas paper says that AA made a proposal on Thursday:

On Thursday, American Airlines officials proposed at the negotiating table that American eliminate the B Plan in favor of the pilots' 401(k). Each pilot's current B Plan balance and the company contribution of 11 percent of a pilot's eligible pay would go into the 401(k) instead.

American spokeswoman Tami McLallen said the pilots would get the same money they get now and could choose to have American Beacon invest the funds, much the same as the investment manager does with their B Plan money, or pick the other investment choices in the 401(k).

Moving to the 401(k) would reduce administrative costs and simplify matters for both the airline and pilots and give pilots more flexibility in managing their retirement money, she said.

But it would eliminate the 90-day window flexibility upon retirement.

An Allied Pilots Association spokesman said the union would review the proposal before commenting.

In addition to the B Plan, American's pilots also participate in the A Plan, a defined-benefit pension.

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dw...re.377a128.html

 

[The Goose]

Good point. Not much real negotiation has happened yet - so no need to waste the mediator's time.

Today's Dallas paper says that AA made a proposal on Thursday:



http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dw...re.377a128.html

The company wanting elimination of the 90 day 'lock-in' of the 'B' plan is sure to raise some hackles in the pilots' clubhouse, not to mention eliminating the 'A' plan.

So far, I'm only hearing of proposals neither side will take kindly to; evidently posturing or trading insults, however one chooses to look at it. I read that as boths sides being rather comfy in their present positions and simply wanting to get in a few licks (and provide a bit of entertainment) before settling down for serious business.

 

[MCI transplant]

Nonsense.

The court never ruled on the merits of the case. The case was dismissed based on technicalities. Most of the counts were dismissed because the statute of limitations was blown by Sherry Cooper and the IAM. The rest of the complaint failed because the court ruled that it had no jurisdiction over the matter.

Why don't you read the actual court opinion instead of writing fiction based upon figments of your fertile imagination.

Dismissal of Amended Complaint

<_< ----- Sorry for the confusion boys! But we're not even talking about the same case! the one I was referring to was the one where we had a exTWA FSC layed off in STL, transfered to Detroit. Once there they adjusted his seniority down from 100% to 25%. His claim was that Kasher had ruled that he could exercises his "exit Seniority!" The case was putting pressure on Kasher to "clarified" his ruling! Another reason to kill this case! Kasher refused to put anything on paper! Stating," that if clarification was needed, to come see him personally, and he'd explain it!"------ Right!!!

 

[eolesen]

Take the TWA conspiracy crap to another thread already....



The whole mediation proposal was a red herring and the APA knew it. Even in mediation, there's no way the NMB would have released the parties until February 2009. It just ain't gonna happen leading into an election, and it ain't gonna happen a week or two after a presidential inaguration.

 

[Bob Owens]

Take the TWA conspiracy crap to another thread already....



The whole mediation proposal was a red herring and the APA knew it. Even in mediation, there's no way the NMB would have released the parties until February 2009. It just ain't gonna happen leading into an election, and it ain't gonna happen a week or two after a presidential inaguration.

And where is that written in the RLA?

I'm not denying that it may happen that way but clearly its an abuse of the law by those entrusted to apply the law. In cases like this people should violate the law because that the only way it can ever be corrected.

If Rosa Parks had not broken the law the law would have remained in place, people of color would still be forced to sit in the back of the bus. If working people continue to allow corporate friendly government officials to take away their rights things will only get worse.

 

[eolesen]

I believe you are the one who has pointed out before that if it's not specifically prohibited by law, it's permitted...

Nowhere in the RLA does it specify how long parties can or should remain under Federal mediation. It's open ended, which is one of the biggest problems I see under the RLA.

There's already precedence for dragging feet in an election year. NMB kept EAL and the IAM in mediation with Harry Bickford for a good eight months past the point where most people agree they were at a deadlock (July 1988). They weren't released into a 30 day cooling off period until February 1989, about three weeks after Bush took office.

Coincidence? Hardly...

Had they gone into a cooling off period in 1988, who knows if Reagan would have stepped in or not.

 

[Hopeful]

I believe you are the one who has pointed out before that if it's not specifically prohibited by law, it's permitted...

Nowhere in the RLA does it specify how long parties can or should remain under Federal mediation. It's open ended, which is one of the biggest problems I see under the RLA.

There's already precedence for dragging feet in an election year. NMB kept EAL and the IAM in mediation with Harry Bickford for a good eight months past the point where most people agree they were at a deadlock (July 1988). They weren't released into a 30 day cooling off period until February 1989, about three weeks after Bush took office.

Coincidence? Hardly...

Had they gone into a cooling off period in 1988, who knows if Reagan would have stepped in or not.

Given the fact that Reagan started it all with PATCO, why the need to wait for Bush 1 term to begin?

 

[TWU informer]

One day the employees within the airline industry will have their fill and a Nation wide shutdown of the industry will take place.

Only then will the Politicians and Law Makers understand who is really in charge.

Just the French they will tell you.

 

[eolesen]

Sounds great on paper, Dave, but it won't be in our lifetimes. You're forgetting the percentage of the industry who isn't unionized, which is a segment that continues to grow at the Legacy carriers expense.

 

[TIME FOR CHANGE]

There are other ways to force the company's hand.
Nothing makes money when it sits on the ground due to numerous inbound items.

 

[DallasConehead]

There are other ways to force the company's hand.
Nothing makes money when it sits on the ground due to numerous inbound items.

Great, pilots to write so techs can write too. Where did I put my tools? All I have is this pen.

 

[SkydrolJunkie]

Great, pilots to write so techs can write too. Where did I put my tools? All I have is this pen.

Is that you Smitty???