Pilots fight `by the book'

[hp_fa]

Interested in hearing other f/a's responses to if they were put in this situation. Would you serve the pilots drinks and food if they refuse to help you?

Ya know, if it is the last leg of the trip and he is a commuter on a tight connection there are ways to get even...

Unfortunately the passengers suffer in this type of civil war, but by the same token you didn't start it, he didn't care about the passengers when he refused to help expedite problem-solving at the gate and if you fail to defend your position you will be stepped over by these types of guys with regularity.

The bottom line is that if the FA's don't take themselves seriously they can't expect others to do so.

 

[fr8tmastr]

I think some may be taking these actions personally. The Captain of this flight was not trying to get you or show you who's boss, he is following current union protocol. These include all the things Boeing boy posted previously. Instead of heading in the direction of a civil war between the crew, please try and understand what is going on, and maybe even heaven forbid, support union activities for the lowest paid employees in the business.

I do realize that some things are contrary to what most employees at Airways believe, unfortunetely those in the sandcastle are to busy counting their last bonuses to care about us or our loyal customers. Just do the best you can under the circumstances, hopefully Dougie and the bean counters will get the message, then we can all get to the business of making Airways what we all know it can be, if we could just get a little help from management.

 

[a320av8r]

As they said in The Godfather- "It's not personal, it's business".
Management must be forced to earn their multi-million dollar bonuses and actually run the airline. We've been told loud and clear that we (east pilots) are only worth the lowest wages in the industry. We're not even worth the same as the west pilots.
I was B scale for 5 years in the 80's now I'm C scale.

Minimum effort for minimum pay.

 

[hp_fa]

I understand what pilots are saying and I have sympathy. But don't take out that kind of stuff on your crew members. Go ahead and taxi on two engines, taxi at 10 mph, don't request higher altitudes (except for turbulence) and fly by the book. But don't inadvertantly take out your actions on the FA's. They need to deal with the passengers once that door is shut and making their life more miserable then it needs to be isn't good CRM nor is it likely to get them to understand your situation.

 

[N924PS]

I recently flew with a captain who stated he would not be calling for dup. seats, water, catering call back etc. He stated that was not in his job description and he would not be doing it. Well needless to say it was a great begining of a trip. So much for teamwork. I understand the point trying to be made but it puts the flight attendant in a difficult position. We are left with a problem and no way to solve it since we can not get off the airplane. I asked as a courtsy if he could do it and he said no it was not part of his job description. I pointed out that serving drinks to the cockpit was a courtesy and not part of my job description and that if we wanted to stick to the letter of his job, I would do the same. Thank God it was only a two day trip but I did not serve one thing to the the cockpit. I think he thought I was a girl that could be pushed around but he was wrong.

We are all in this contract boat together but I don't think alienating the flight attendants by creating a problem like that is the way. He said alpa is telling the pilots not to do these things. Is this true? I would be interested in seeing AFA's response.

Interested in hearing other f/a's responses to if they were put in this situation. Would you serve the pilots drinks and food if they refuse to help you?

Petty on your part. Very petty. Maybe the pilots won't sign you in at the hotel or check your room either. That's not in their job description either.

It goes on and on. Grow up.

 

[2clippedwings]

I think some may be taking these actions personally. The Captain of this flight was not trying to get you or show you who's boss, he is following current union protocol. These include all the things Boeing boy posted previously. Instead of heading in the direction of a civil war between the crew, please try and understand what is going on, and maybe even heaven forbid, support union activities for the lowest paid employees in the business.

I do realize that some things are contrary to what most employees at Airways believe, unfortunetely those in the sandcastle are to busy counting their last bonuses to care about us or our loyal customers. Just do the best you can under the circumstances, hopefully Dougie and the bean counters will get the message, then we can all get to the business of making Airways what we all know it can be, if we could just get a little help from management.

Now is the time to back eachother up.
Perhaps during the brief an f/a could respond to the captain acknowledging the "by the book" operation while working a way out to communicate with the gate. The biggest problem is that f/a's can't get off, even to answer a ringing phone in the jetway.
Maybe before boarding ask the gate agent to come down or send someone down during the boarding process to check that everything is going fine. Delays are going to be an inevitable side effect of a by the book operation.
That's (part of) the point. AFA will need to come out with some guidance ASAP to work with this.

 

[Zarah]

I support the pilots, and hope the company gets their message loud and clear.

Maybe one day when the AFA gets their act together the pilots can return the favor.

 

[A320 Driver]

While I have taken the ALPA position to heart, I won't hold the Flight Attendants hostage to it. I can do those things that help them without stepping outside my job description. Flight crews, pilots and Flight Attendants, must look out for each other. I will NEVER stop supporting them in any way I can.

We can strike a balance that makes our point to the management without sacrificing the welfare of our Flight Attendants.


A320 Driver B)

 

[john john]

Some captains are informing the A f/a not to shut the door of the a/c until the captain gives the OK.

 

[boeingf/a]

Petty on your part. Very petty. Maybe the pilots won't sign you in at the hotel or check your room either. That's not in their job description either.

It goes on and on. Grow up.

Please it takes so much effort to sign the flight attendants in.. give me a break.

 

[Whatnow?]

Please it takes so much effort to sign the flight attendants in.. give me a break.

And 9 times out of 10 the pilots are the only one's that have trips sheets anyway! I don't expect them to sign us in anymore....if I get a chance I'll do it to get a choice of rooms that I want. B)

 

[Pylit]

My crews always get trip sheets. I make them at home. I'm lost without one, and it's a nice gesture to my fellow co-workers. I always sign in the crew at the o/n - again, courtesy. I'll even retrieve food/coffee during short l/o's or quick turns. And thank you so much for the cockpit drink service, I really do appreciate that and know it is a courtesy from you to me.
However, until work-rule issues are settled, I will have to go by the book....and it pains me to say 'it's not my job', because that's not how I was raised, and is really not in my nature. But it has come down to this, and I will support my union's stance.
I suggest having double seaters wait until the agent arrives for bag-tagging or close out to resolve those issues. I know it is an inconvenience, but it is truly a gate-agent responsibility and not a flight-deck crewmember's.
Recently the FA's needed a seat cover and the lavs dumped. The agent was standing in the galley but the 'A' looked at me and requested that I call. I looked at the gate agent and told him to do it...after all, he's right there and knows the ops phone #. He had no clue what he was being asked to do, probably because he'd never done it before. The upshot is that it didn't get done, and I had to call it in anyway.
This airline has been carried by the front end for a long time and are being dealt concessionary offers from management. Obviously, they don't think we're worth the bottom of the barrel wages we make now.
They don't even think we're worth the same as our western counterparts who earn more and have 10 days more vacation.
Sorry to all the FA's out there, but we don't mean to shoot the messenger, or to be rude. It's just that we've had enough.

 

[hp_fa]

While I have taken the ALPA position to heart, I won't hold the Flight Attendants hostage to it. I can do those things that help them without stepping outside my job description. Flight crews, pilots and Flight Attendants, must look out for each other. I will NEVER stop supporting them in any way I can.

We can strike a balance that makes our point to the management without sacrificing the welfare of our Flight Attendants.
A320 Driver B)

IMO, that is fair and understandable. Kudos to you.

 

[dusty]

Just what I need on a caribbean overnight!View attachment 5612

Is that the PHL Chief Pilot "fat bastard" aka fresno?

 

[Phoenix]

I think you should adopt as your slogan the one Nancy Reagan came up with for her anti drug campaign.
Just say NO!

My how your perspective has changed from a couple of years ago. When the employees were taking it in the shorts by themselves you talked about bidness is bidness.

You said, “Shareholder/investor equity is why you have a job! That's what you are there for, to provide the investors a ROI, nothing more nothing less. You are part of the product or service.â€￾

You continued "The point to all of this is: For reasons known only to yourself you chose to throw in with US Air in what ever position you took. Now you have found out what I knew years ago. NO COMPANY HAS YOUR BEST INTERESTS AT HEART 100% of the time. Employers award pay & benefits based on the economics of their industry. Comparitively you did well in the good times. Now times are not so good and SURPRISE! They don't give a rat's behind about you! nor should they. Their obligation is to the shareholders not employees. Siegel gets his before you get yours! It is time for many of you to make tough choices. The company owes you NOTHING, morally or ethically you chose your path, they chose theirs. When they were convergent life was grand. Now they are divergent, to the point that the company may fail. Again, more choices for Dave and every employee. Be happy in life the money follows in my experience. Jobs and companies come and go.

If I recall correctly you even told us “You aint seen nothing yet.â€￾ back when this death spiral started.

You were right.

Now that customers are being routinely subjected to the shakedown too you want your pound of flesh also, even if it is vicariously.

So I guess the enemy of our enemy, is our friend, for now.

Peace, out.