Pilots fight `by the book'

[ALCARLOS]

Oh cool, Pilots in "SPEEDOS"!

The point I am trying to make ... although obviously not well is ..... I do not believe that failure to accept a uniform will be a compelling argument to move management in the desired direction. Now if the airline was vigerously growning and there was a need for more pilots, management's answer would be more pay and benefits. Unfortunately, as long as there are USAirways pilots on the street, there is little motivate to increase pay and/or benefits.

 

[BoeingBoy]

I do not believe that failure to accept a uniform will be a compelling argument to move management in the desired direction.

FWIW, I got your point and agree. New uniforms (or lack thereof) will have no measurable effect on negotiations. In fact, it could have the opposite effect by demonstrating the lack of will to do anything substantial.

Unfortunately, as long as there are USAirways pilots on the street, there is little motivate to increase pay and/or benefits.

This one in not necessarily true. There are tools in the pilot group's arsenal that, if used, could prod the company in the desired direction.

So far, there doesn't appear to have been a coordinated effort by enough of the pilot group to use those tools. Until that happens, Glass is probably laughing at talk of not getting new uniforms or sporatic and limited picketing.

Jim

 

[BuffaloJoe]

The point I am trying to make ... although obviously not well is ..... I do not believe that failure to accept a uniform will be a compelling argument to move management in the desired direction. Now if the airline was vigerously growning and there was a need for more pilots, management's answer would be more pay and benefits. Unfortunately, as long as there are USAirways pilots on the street, there is little motivate to increase pay and/or benefits.

I see your point. Now if none of the recalls would accept coming back then the demand for pilots starts. That sucks. The American way is the Rich get Richer and they have control of it. The general working man has his nuts in a vice. They give them bonuses what takes a working man 10+ years to make, if not more. The BOD would say, that is the way we keep them. Well guess what, if NO company would do that, they'd just have to live by that. Oh I feel so bad for them. NOT! But that day will never come and people get crapped upon even more often. The laws are generally Pro-Business. They can afford to Lobby and Wine & Dine your State and US legislaters. Why would they care about us? It is hard to fight back, the general worker has a family, mortgages, auto payment, groceries. If you strike, its only setting the worker back even more, cause the lost wages will make you late with bills that will be really difficult to make up. I would love to see EVERYONE UNITE! But that is why management makes you suffer with low wages, they know that you can't unite. When your pay was Fair and reputable, that was their hardest time for them to do their job. Back then you had leverage and a buffer.

 

[FutureUScapt]

DB says not even close, maybe by end of the summer. FLY BY THE BOOK!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yep, last week Doug said that ALPAs offer would add $400 million in costs a year (keep in mind this figure is coming from the other side of the table) and and they are only willing to bump everyone up to the US-west contract, which equates to about $40 million more a year. Doug remains convinced that he can operate one airline w/ two separate contracts, I'm not so sure of that...

 

[BoeingBoy]

Yep, last week Doug said that ALPAs offer would add $400 million in costs a year (keep in mind this figure is coming from the other side of the table)

Keep the fact that it's the company's figure very much in mind. Hard to see how ALPA's proposals would add 25% to employee costs for the whole company.

they are only willing to bump everyone up to the US-west contract, which equates to about $40 million more a year.

Of course, according to the JNC, the company negotiators had to spend nearly an entire day "explaining" what that really meant. Guess that's why some of the company offers on various sections are worse than either contract.

Doug remains convinced that he can operate one airline w/ two separate contracts, I'm not so sure of that...

I can't repeat it enough. The result will depend entirely on the collective will of the pilot group.

I suspect that the company (Glass) is counting on time being on their side. Counting on enough of the East pilots eventually getting tired of their inferior contract and voting for something that gets them most of the way to the West contract. And counting on enough of the West pilots accepting some relatively minor cuts in exchange for getting access to East bases, routes, or wide-bodies.

Jim

 

[CapnCockroach]

Support how?

The beautiful thing about CHAOS (which the AFA is so proud of that they have it trademarked) is that it is meant to work with the airline operational, but in CHAOS!

Get it?

Has the AFA ever used "CHAOS" to any effect? Didn't think so.

 

[PA18]

I suspect that the company (Glass) is counting on time being on their side. Counting on enough of the East pilots eventually getting tired of their inferior contract and voting for something that gets them most of the way to the West contract. And counting on enough of the West pilots accepting some relatively minor cuts in exchange for getting access to East bases, routes, or wide-bodies.

Jim

Jim,

That is exactly what the company is doing. I think we've both seen this movie before.

Also, I'm betting that the newest "carrot" in the negotiations is the China rumor, which is already the hot topic in crew rooms and hotel vans.

Glass will be able to dangle the alleged new widebodies in front of both groups. And we all know what suckers the East pilots are when it comes to promises of "more airplanes than God can count".

Once again, Glass is counting on the "Let My Daddy Vote" crowd to be his allies.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Agreed.....lead by our resident seer, no doubt.

Jim

 

[N109UW]

Oh cool, Pilots in "SPEEDOS"!

Just because it fits, doesn't mean it looks right.

 

[a320av8r]

Just because it fits, doesn't mean it looks right.

Just what I need on a caribbean overnight!View attachment 5612

 

[BuffaloJoe]

Just what I need on a caribbean overnight!View attachment 5612

Hey, How did you get a picture of me?

 

[boeingf/a]

I recently flew with a captain who stated he would not be calling for dup. seats, water, catering call back etc. He stated that was not in his job description and he would not be doing it. Well needless to say it was a great begining of a trip. So much for teamwork. I understand the point trying to be made but it puts the flight attendant in a difficult position. We are left with a problem and no way to solve it since we can not get off the airplane. I asked as a courtsy if he could do it and he said no it was not part of his job description. I pointed out that serving drinks to the cockpit was a courtesy and not part of my job description and that if we wanted to stick to the letter of his job, I would do the same. Thank God it was only a two day trip but I did not serve one thing to the the cockpit. I think he thought I was a girl that could be pushed around but he was wrong.

We are all in this contract boat together but I don't think alienating the flight attendants by creating a problem like that is the way. He said alpa is telling the pilots not to do these things. Is this true? I would be interested in seeing AFA's response.

Interested in hearing other f/a's responses to if they were put in this situation. Would you serve the pilots drinks and food if they refuse to help you?

 

[BuffaloJoe]

I recently flew with a captain who stated he would not be calling for dup. seats, water, catering call back etc. He stated that was not in his job description and he would not be doing it. Well needless to say it was a great begining of a trip. So much for teamwork. I understand the point trying to be made but it puts the flight attendant in a difficult position. We are left with a problem and no way to solve it since we can not get off the airplane. I asked as a courtsy if he could do it and he said no it was not part of his job description. I pointed out that serving drinks to the cockpit was a courtesy and not part of my job description and that if we wanted to stick to the letter of his job, I would do the same. Thank God it was only a two day trip but I did not serve one thing to the the cockpit. I think he thought I was a girl that could be pushed around but he was wrong.

We are all in this contract boat together but I don't think alienating the flight attendants by creating a problem like that is the way. He said alpa is telling the pilots not to do these things. Is this true? I would be interested in seeing AFA's response.

Interested in hearing other f/a's responses to if they were put in this situation. Would you serve the pilots drinks and food if they refuse to help you?

If the door is open and at the gate, is the pilot still in charge?

 

[boeingf/a]

If the door is open and at the gate, is the pilot still in charge?

yes, it is his/her plane

 

[BoeingBoy]

If the door is open and at the gate, is the pilot still in charge?

Absolutely, at least at East and I'd be surprised if it wasn't the same at West.

He said alpa is telling the pilots not to do these things. Is this true?

I have no idea what's happening with West ALPA, but at East they're using a 3-prong strategy:

- Informational picketing

- Do your job. Don't do less, but don't do more.

- What they call WAR reports. Don't remember what it stands for, but it's just reminders of what's in the airplane or ops manual. In other words, operate by the book.

Jim