US Airways First Company to Step Forward

[VAflyGal]

So you have been waiting for six years plus whatever amount of time you may prefer to add in pre-merger for both groups and you still have quite a ways to go with absolutely no guarantee that you will get released to self-help in 1, 2 of 5 more years of NMB mediated talks. That's your plan for ultimate success?

Note to Management: the FAs are perfectly happy staying on their current contracts and receiving no increase in wages for many more years to come . They are far too busy dreaming of a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow to worry about getting a contract done today. I wonder how many millions in savings that calculates out to, especially using the time value of money formulas?

Do you think the company will still be here then? Many of the east pilots, with the help of USAPA, are trying to burn the place down long before you get your shot which would leave you with nothing to collect. What do you get then? Or, what if the company completes another merger and you get thrown into a situation where a much larger population of FAs prefer to be non-union (DL) or they don't agree with your scorched earth plan? Will waiting for six to ten years with nothing to show for it be worth it then? What if you have to go out on medical or something else happens which ends your career? Will it be worth it then? The point is the future can throw many curve balls at you and completely wreck your plans. Why oh why didn't I invest in Apple back in 1992 when I was predicting to my college buddy that they would not only survive the Microsoft domination but would ultimately over take them as the worlds largest tech company? Knowing what I know now, I see just how big of a mistake I made by not making an investment back then that would have paid off big time for me now. Knowing what the future holds is tenuous to downright impossible for us mortals.

What would be your plan, Callaway? To take the substandard middle finger that the company has offered us? Not gonna happen. There is no guarantee that we will get released into self help but I have a sneaking suspicion we're making progress with this mediator, and I doubt seriously he will entertain 1, 2, or 5 more years of talks. I'm curious what working person here would not be in support of another labor group getting a fair contract. It's not like we're asking for what SWA has, or what AA has, or what Alaska has, but you cannot seriously hold a straight face and say we should just take what they have offered us when I have personal friends here on food stamps. Really. We're not dreaming of a pot at the end of the rainbow, and your little "note to management" is way off base. Spare me trying to turn us against our brothers in USAPA. The pilots have their own battles, but I'm not going to get sucked down that slippery slope. And, sir, to be honest, I really don't have much to show for my "career" here now, even after X number of years, I make less than I did two years after I got hired, and sure get screwed over a hell of a lot more. Am I complaining? No sir, and I choose not to quit, at this point, because there is hope for a better tomorrow, despite the nay-sayers who think we're just a bunch of greedy people who want some pie-in-the-sky. We don't. Just what's fair, and I assure you, sir, that the proposal is NOT fair in the least.

As far as going on a medical, things happen, and have happened, and will happen. All the more reason to have a good contract to support us in times of work and injury and illness. A non union airline, here? Would NEVER happen. We see what this management team is capable of doing - furloughs, displacements, outsourcing, closing bases, hubs, layoffs, giving everything under the sun to any express worker who will work for what they offer, experience and education be damned.... no sir, I have a plan b, am college educated, have other things going on in my life, and have a set of guts as do my colleagues who can and will vote YES when a strike vote is placed before us.

We don't live in fear anymore, kind sir, and we'll keep on keeping on just like we always have. Safety First, Service with a smile, you know... the important stuff.

 

[CallawayGolf]

What would be your plan, Callaway? To take the substandard middle finger that the company has offered us? Not gonna happen. There is no guarantee that we will get released into self help but I have a sneaking suspicion we're making progress with this mediator, and I doubt seriously he will entertain 1, 2, or 5 more years of talks. I'm curious what working person here would not be in support of another labor group getting a fair contract. It's not like we're asking for what SWA has, or what AA has, or what Alaska has, but you cannot seriously hold a straight face and say we should just take what they have offered us when I have personal friends here on food stamps. Really. We're not dreaming of a pot at the end of the rainbow, and your little "note to management" is way off base. Spare me trying to turn us against our brothers in USAPA. The pilots have their own battles, but I'm not going to get sucked down that slippery slope. And, sir, to be honest, I really don't have much to show for my "career" here now, even after X number of years, I make less than I did two years after I got hired, and sure get screwed over a hell of a lot more. Am I complaining? No sir, and I choose not to quit, at this point, because there is hope for a better tomorrow, despite the nay-sayers who think we're just a bunch of greedy people who want some pie-in-the-sky. We don't. Just what's fair, and I assure you, sir, that the proposal is NOT fair in the least.

As far as going on a medical, things happen, and have happened, and will happen. All the more reason to have a good contract to support us in times of work and injury and illness. A non union airline, here? Would NEVER happen. We see what this management team is capable of doing - furloughs, displacements, outsourcing, closing bases, hubs, layoffs, giving everything under the sun to any express worker who will work for what they offer, experience and education be damned.... no sir, I have a plan b, am college educated, have other things going on in my life, and have a set of guts as do my colleagues who can and will vote YES when a strike vote is placed before us.

We don't live in fear anymore, kind sir, and we'll keep on keeping on just like we always have. Safety First, Service with a smile, you know... the important stuff.

What would I have you do? Well we would have to go back six years and start working to negotiate a contract in good faith that utilized mathematics rather than emotion. Since you can't do that now, I suggest you start by looking at the company's operating income every year since the merger and determine what the maximum amount the company can afford to pay given the financial data. On that note, it looks to me like the company has averaged $190M in operating income over the past five years. That's the total pie you have to work with. Do you agree with that?

Now logic and a solid understanding of business finance should tell you that the Company cannot allocate 100% of that operating profit to salaries, wages and benefits because there are other fleet and infrastructure projects required to keep the company in business and competitive within the industry. The company is also highly leveraged (in debt up to its eyeballs, but still far better than the US Government) and some of those operating profits are needed to pay down on the principle on the debt for the survivability of the company. For simplicity sake, let's assume that 50% might be available for wages and benefits (probably high, but easy math). Okay, so that means that the Company has $95M to spread out to all of the labor groups that want higher pay. However, we need to drop that value by about 40% to cover all of the federal, state and related payroll tax burden which cannot be mathematically included in the wage offer to labor, so that takes us down to $57M in wage increases that Management could reasonably offer to employees.

Of course not all employees make the same amount of salary and wages today, so a weighted average would be more appropriate than a simple average and the AFA ought to know what the FA's percentages are relative to pilots, fleet service, MX, customer service and the rest. However, even if we just do the simple $57M divided by 32,000 employees, we come to a figure of $1,781 per employee per year. Divide that again by 12 and we come to $148/mo for each employee as an average available increase. This is mathematically the maximum the company can reasonably offer without risking bankruptcy.

Now I have no idea what financial information Management has passed along to the mediator, but my guess is that, while significantly more thorough and accurate than my rough estimations, the end result is probably about the same. The Company has 32,000 employees and an average of $190M in operating income over a fiver year period. Of course Management has already offered the pilots $120m in annual improvement so that knocks the $190M down to $70M, not including payroll taxes and overhead. Now they have also offered the FAs $40M in improvements so now that leaves $30M to cover roughly the other half of the employees who are not flight crews. Of course both the pilots and FAs want more and must take from an already disproportionately small pool shared by the other 15,000 employees. At that point it starts to look ridiculous to ask for more when the pie has already been shrunk 85% by by two labor groups.

Fair is not an objective measure, but it sounds to me like with the pilot and FA offers made by Management, they have gone above and beyond what the mathematics I just presented will support. If the offers are unfair, it is is unfair to the shareholders, not the employees (by way of lower profits, shareholder value, and far greater risk to solvency). Management has clearly offered more than they could afford to give in order to get the deals done. If the mediators for the FAs and pilots have a calculator and have taken a business finance course, then I wouldn't hold out much hope for significantly higher wages offers or for being released to self-help CHAOS scenarios. The mediator is not going to stick his neck out and have the company file for bankruptcy because employees can't use a calculator and he was just feeling generous with someone else's money. Furthermore, release to self-help is not going to be granted if one side is making unreasonable and unattainable demands (that would be the FAs and pilots). If the AFA had competent negotiators and leadership to figure this out, you would have been told the truth and could have had better paycheck back in 2006. That doesn't mean you would be happy, but at least you would have something rather than nothing with little hope of getting more.

 

[VAflyGal]

What would I have you do? Well we would have to go back six years and start working to negotiate a contract in good faith that utilized mathematics rather than emotion. Since you can't do that now, I suggest you start by looking at the company's operating income every year since the merger and determine what the maximum amount the company can afford to pay given the financial data. On that note, it looks to me like the company has averaged $190M in operating income over the past five years. That's the total pie you have to work with. Do you agree with that?

Now logic and a solid understanding of business finance should tell you that the Company cannot allocate 100% of that operating profit to salaries, wages and benefits because there are other fleet and infrastructure projects required to keep the company in business and competitive within the industry. The company is also highly leveraged (in debt up to its eyeballs, but still far better than the US Government) and some of those operating profits are needed to pay down on the principle on the debt for the survivability of the company. For simplicity sake, let's assume that 50% might be available for wages and benefits (probably high, but easy math). Okay, so that means that the Company has $95M to spread out to all of the labor groups that want higher pay. However, we need to drop that value by about 40% to cover all of the federal, state and related payroll tax burden which cannot be mathematically included in the wage offer to labor, so that takes us down to $57M in wage increases that Management could reasonably offer to employees.

Of course not all employees make the same amount of salary and wages today, so a weighted average would be more appropriate than a simple average and the AFA ought to know what the FA's percentages are relative to pilots, fleet service, MX, customer service and the rest. However, even if we just do the simple $57M divided by 32,000 employees, we come to a figure of $1,781 per employee per year. Divide that again by 12 and we come to $148/mo for each employee as an average available increase. This is mathematically the maximum the company can reasonably offer without risking bankruptcy.

Now I have no idea what financial information Management has passed along to the mediator, but my guess is that, while significantly more thorough and accurate than my rough estimations, the end result is probably about the same. The Company has 32,000 employees and an average of $190M in operating income over a fiver year period. Of course Management has already offered the pilots $120m in annual improvement so that knocks the $190M down to $70M, not including payroll taxes and overhead. Now they have also offered the FAs $40M in improvements so now that leaves $30M to cover roughly the other half of the employees who are not flight crews. Of course both the pilots and FAs want more and must take from an already disproportionately small pool shared by the other 15,000 employees. At that point it starts to look ridiculous to ask for more when the pie has already been shrunk 85% by by two labor groups.

Fair is not an objective measure, but it sounds to me like with the pilot and FA offers made by Management, they have gone above and beyond what the mathematics I just presented will support. If the offers are unfair, it is is unfair to the shareholders, not the employees (by way of lower profits, shareholder value, and far greater risk to solvency). Management has clearly offered more than they could afford to give in order to get the deals done. If the mediators for the FAs and pilots have a calculator and have taken a business finance course, then I wouldn't hold out much hope for significantly higher wages offers or for being released to self-help CHAOS scenarios. The mediator is not going to stick his neck out and have the company file for bankruptcy because employees can't use a calculator and he was just feeling generous with someone else's money. Furthermore, release to self-help is not going to be granted if one side is making unreasonable and unattainable demands (that would be the FAs and pilots). If the AFA had competent negotiators and leadership to figure this out, you would have been told the truth and could have had better paycheck back in 2006. That doesn't mean you would be happy, but at least you would have something rather than nothing with little hope of getting more.

Sorry, not buying it. Put up Venn diagrams and flow charts and pie charts and pictures of Dougie's golf carts and I still say it's going to cost them less to give us a fair and workable wage and contract than it will cost when we start parking planes across the pond for Chaos. Hold our feet to the fire and we'll walk across the coals. ENOUGH IS ENOUGH.

 

[signals]

Hospitality House of Charlotte gets a check from US Airways to ease the burden of struggling families.

Nice article in the Charlotte Observer this morning. Doug Parker was here also and was helping in the kitchen at the charity.

Hmmmm....is this a public service to get noticed in case WN pulls an Atlanta? You know, the employees doing community service. Say it isn't so

 

[signals]

Good lord how do you people get through daily life with such crappy attitudes?

They continue to work for US!

 

[VAflyGal]

Callaway, you seem like a reasonable person. Would you help me out, and maybe try to convince the company something in so doing? We have a lot of topped out earners here at US, who are at the top of the payscale, many of whom would like to retire but cannot do so because of healthcare and the cost of health insurance. Many are too young to qualify for Medicare so they stay for the insurance. You could hire 2 new hires for the price of one topped out payscale person (who would want to leave) IF the company would offer some sort of meaningful health insurance bridge, or buyout, or both, all of which are tax deductible. Why don't they do this? AFA has been saying for years they have pushed for a buyout or a health plan to no avail. How does it NOT make financial sense to retire one with a nominal buyout and healthcare (again, can be shown as a loss) - and have a new person with a fresh attitude at a lower pay scale.

?

 

[ContUNITEus]

My point is simply that if the FAs actually wanted a JCBA and the enhancements that would accompany it, they would already have it.

Seriously? With the above quote alone, I can definitely say that you are smoking company pot instead of just drinking their KoolAid. It is moot to continue to try to discuss anything with you, as you seem to be a little high. I refuse to smoke, and I am definitely not going to try other stuff to get where you are.

You are out of your mind. I am sorry to put it in those words.

End of discussion

Additional note: "Told ya'll... If you do what this Callaway guy says to do, and would have settled for a $15 a flight hour starting salary that tops out at $30 (the way AWA management would want it), $250 a month health insurance + $100 copay, and a 65 hour guarantee, but a clause that you must fly 130 minimum (otherwise you'll get in trouble), 10 vacation days after 10 years, (oh yeahh and adding some other company mathematics into this), then you ya'll would've had a contract 6 years ago. Of course, you MUST be willing to be in par with the wages that they are paying at, for instance, TACA airlines down in Central America which equals about $5 us dollars a flight hour. In terms of seeing it from that perspective, sure there is nobody else to blame, other than the workforce at US Airways for not wanting to be the "LEADERS" (if you wanna spin it like that) in low wages. After all, flight attendants could make a decent wage if they just would pitch harder for the US Airways Credit Card. As a matter of fact, at least 50% of F/As $1500 monthly income should be coming from this source."

 

[CallawayGolf]

Sorry, not buying it. Put up Venn diagrams and flow charts and pie charts and pictures of Dougie's golf carts and I still say it's going to cost them less to give us a fair and workable wage and contract than it will cost when we start parking planes across the pond for Chaos. Hold our feet to the fire and we'll walk across the coals. ENOUGH IS ENOUGH.

I didn't expect you to buy it. However, if you set aside your emotional attachment to the cause, then perhaps you can see things from another perspective. If you want to negotiate with Management, you need to learn and understand the mathematical approach they must take as fiduciaries of the company. And, if you want to predict how a mediator is going to make decisions, you should have an idea of what Management will present to show that they have made a good faith and perhaps best and final offer.

If nothing else, know this...the mediator will not release your to self-help if you are not negotiating within the realm of sanity and reason. If he has no data or reason to suspect that Management isn't being honest with the financial data presented, then he will park negotiations until the AFA re-enters the process with reasonable expectations. You are only hurting yourself by ignoring the facts in favor of emotions. At least that's my take on the matter.

 

[VAflyGal]

I didn't expect you to buy it. However, if you set aside your emotional attachment to the cause, then perhaps you can see things from another perspective. If you want to negotiate with Management, you need to learn and understand the mathematical approach they must take as fiduciaries of the company. And, if you want to predict how a mediator is going to make decisions, you should have an idea of what Management will present to show that they have made a good faith and perhaps best and final offer.

If nothing else, know this...the mediator will not release your to self-help if you are not negotiating within the realm of sanity and reason. If he has no data or reason to suspect that Management isn't being honest with the financial data presented, then he will park negotiations until the AFA re-enters the process with reasonable expectations. You are only hurting yourself by ignoring the facts in favor of emotions. At least that's my take on the matter.

Crap, I just voted this up instead of clicking REPLY.
I'm totally unemotional about this. I'm not going to waste my energy getting emotional about it. In fact it's just the opposite. I do see both sides, and I see how they have profited on the backs of their employees the last six years, and it makes me sick. Like it or not, when the strike vote comes, see what happens. Maybe they will wise up and stop the problem before it starts. You can spin information any way you want to, but we are not dummies and our mediator is a former NWA captain who knows the industry. I think he will be fair.

 

[signals]

Trust me they do. One has been on here as long as I have and he hates life. Trust me the majority of US employees do not feel the same way. It doesnt matter how many management teams this airline has or will have they will have the same negative attitude. Just pay no attention...Their co workers do

Were there more employees that worked for AWA than US? That would explain the reason Delta wiped out over 45K+ union jobs. Scabs outnumbered unions 2 to 1! Otherwise you can't see the forest beyond the trees. I tend to see a different attitude. The bottom line is that you don't have to like your job. We are all performers and do what we get paid for in an excellent manner.

Our jobs don't want us to bring our home life to their environment, and I respect that. Jobs are work, and guess what? Nobody has to like their jobs as long as they do them and do them well.

If your job is your life, social or otherwise, you need to get a real life!

 

[CallawayGolf]

Callaway, you seem like a reasonable person. Would you help me out, and maybe try to convince the company something in so doing? We have a lot of topped out earners here at US, who are at the top of the payscale, many of whom would like to retire but cannot do so because of healthcare and the cost of health insurance. Many are too young to qualify for Medicare so they stay for the insurance. You could hire 2 new hires for the price of one topped out payscale person (who would want to leave) IF the company would offer some sort of meaningful health insurance bridge, or buyout, or both, all of which are tax deductible. Why don't they do this? AFA has been saying for years they have pushed for a buyout or a health plan to no avail. How does it NOT make financial sense to retire one with a nominal buyout and healthcare (again, can be shown as a loss) - and have a new person with a fresh attitude at a lower pay scale.

?

I have no say or influence on anyone but I would personally entertain the idea you suggest. Can you provide more financial information on what the AFA has proposed and how it would benefit the FAs willing to retire and the Company? Like I said it sounds reasonable to me so unless I know more I can't speculate as to why Management wouldn't consider it, other than cash flow concerns, of course.

 

[signals]

700, My guess is you can't cut it in the real world without a union protecting you at each turn.
But on the brightside at least your not on the public dole yet!

Your delusional butt actually believes that your job is forever? Good luck with that

 

[CallawayGolf]

Crap, I just voted this up instead of clicking REPLY.
I'm totally unemotional about this. I'm not going to waste my energy getting emotional about it. In fact it's just the opposite. I do see both sides, and I see how they have profited on the backs of their employees the last six years, and it makes me sick. Like it or not, when the strike vote comes, see what happens. Maybe they will wise up and stop the problem before it starts. You can spin information any way you want to, but we are not dummies and our mediator is a former NWA captain who knows the industry. I think he will be fair.

I hate it when I hit the wrong link. I usually do that when working on my iPad and the like/dislike buttons are really small. I hit the negative/dislike button on my own post so as to negate your like/+ vote. Hope that helps.

I still fail to see how you can be so confident that the mediator will release you if the mathematics just don't make the case you are selling to him. Can you explain under what circumstances you believe a mediator would intentionally risk an airline entering bankruptcy or for allowing a major carrier to be subject to a strike when the CBA is asking for more than can be justified using publicly available financial information?

Thanks.

 

[signals]

its the US MGMT team rakinginthe big bonuses, big pay giving to charity. while its nice that US is or gave to charity they could do the same and give the employees (who are the actual folks that make US fly on time anddoes the actual work) better contracts with better pay etc. 700 is correct

Charity is tax-deductible

 

[signals]

Why don't you quit? I don't get why the people who are soooooo unhappy don't quit?

Because of the economy...duh :huh: