Pilots Agree To Negotiate

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Hate to keep adding long, often repetitive points of view to this mess but here's another one - this from a line pilot...

Jim

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The company is in serious trouble. Yes it is true that our costs are too high as our revenues are too low. Something will have to be done or this place will probably go under.

Still NO PLAN! Seems they want to see if we are receptive to it before they show it. What else are we / they going to do anyways?? I doubt the IAM will ever be receptive so they should get over it. Much talk about
the problem, not much talk about the solution. They seem to be very familiar with Jet Blues pay. Not so familiar with Jet Blues management style.

What I gathered is we are supposed to sort of agree to want to do this without any particulars. Why they wasted an opportunity to show us more I do not know.

Management seems to have absolutely no idea that morale is bad or why it is bad. Don Buttcovic raised a very good point to Bruce Ashby. He stated ( best of my memory) that we had negotiated 2 deals with these
guys already and they seem to have a lot of trouble honoring them. We are tired of negotiating with greivances.I found Ashby to be credible but sort of one way on communication. He speaks to us and was interesting but does he listen??? He seems to think that our morale is poor because we have had cuts and Jet Blue is good because they are growing. When issues were raised about constant "cheating" by management on the contract (like ACARS) that these issues were not mangements intent. Dept heads were doing this to meet their cost goals.

As I drove home I wondered if he would think it was okay for me to steal abit at work each day to help my home budget out??? Bet mgmnt would feel differently about that.

When asked by a check airman what we should do with ideas, problems etc to get feedback he told us to tell our Chief Pilots. He recognizes that the system isn't working but doesn't see it as a morale problem.

RJ issues. They want relief so that the big RJs can be flown elsewhere. In case we need to sell PSA or MDA aircraft to somebody else to make the lenders happy. We can't afford to lose the financing and the RJs feed if GE pulls the loan money. Of course if you were going to get a job at MDA, you might find yourself at Mesa making $15,000 as an FO. We would only get half the jobs elsewhere vs all the jobs at MDA. Not good as if we hose the furloughed guys again they will remember and we may
actually have to fly with them one day if the dump doesn't go under.

Also 90 seat RJs were mentioned on several of Ashby's slides. Some brief reference to them how our competitors will have them so we must too. I can't pin down why but I felt he meant for them to be at commuters, not mainline. Would like that clarified. Ashby was told
many times about the poor service at commuters. Dodged the issue.

Management slide about costs, now retiree health care is a problem. Costs us 130 million. Not at America West or Jet Blue. No request to cut it but there it was as a cost problem. Hopefully Wendy's will have health care after I "retire".

The great "60 planes".....

Quote from Ashby slide:

" if we can adapt we can grow. Up to 60 planes with the right cost structure"

That certainly didn't sound like the great 60 plane rumor I heard.

When asked later directly about 60 planes Mr. Ashby said " if we had a cost structure like them (Jet Blue, America West) then we could grow like them."

Getting the costs down, they want half to come from labor and half from other changes.

When asked, Ashby said that management was willing to be compensated like Jet Blue's. No commitment though.

Ben Baldanza was quite likeable. Seemed to know what he was talking about. We didn't get to have many question answered though.

BTW throughout this, only the MEC members were allowed to ask questions. 50 or 60 pilots there were not.

A lot of MEC questions seemed focused more on small issues not large. Hallway discussion with Ashby a lot of questions about why PHL sucks so bad. Why has it never been fixed. No real answer. There was a sort of slip up where he admitted that it would involve new colors (I knew that it HAD to involve a new paint job, always does here). We also reiterated the fact that we don't trust them and morale stinks. Leadership is necessary, something to believe in.

My fat fingers are tired of typing. The summary:

We are going to have to do something, and I think fairly quickly. Why management is dragging their feet with the plan? Maybe to create another crisis? Maybe Dave's dog ate it? Maybe they can't show it to us as it is so good and creative and we can't let the competition find out
anything?

BOHICA, but I didn't feel like we had much choice. They just do not grasp the idea that we don't trust them, don't think they deliver on there promises, that morale is better on the chain gang, or that maybe some one of the 26,000 employees might have an idea.

I found Ashby to be believable and a pleasant person. Same with Baldanza. Where was Waldo, I mean Dave???? If it is this important and we are so pivotal in getting this done, I found his absence unusual??

I wanted to feel inspired but didn't leave feeling that way. They continue to justify what is the status quo and why we can't change. Some of it I think is true, some isn't. Seem to want us to give without any return.
 
RedOne said:
cavalier said:
700UW said:
I disagree, but it will indeed put undue pressure on the uneducated individuals and workers who have no skills.
Exactly whom are you talking about? :angry:
If one doesn't have a college degree or a trade skill under their belt then they fall into that category.

It’s pretty clear-cut. Time was when not having either, one could get by in this country, but since the world’s politicians are leveling the playing field by bringing up the third world countries, that results in people becoming victims that fall into that category.

And then we have one genius demagogue saying that outsourcing is good, and it will only cause a little pain for a while here. Outsourcing is good for the already very wealthy, yes, but please explain what’s good besides that fact Mr. Bush?

Read this____ http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/04041/271362.stm
 
Why should the employees not fight if they are about to get raped? If they are taking your job why would you vote for that? You still have to live. @#$%*(#.
 
700UW said:
Once again the MEC caves, must be nice to let Dave keep violating the very said agreements he negotiated with them and now ALPA trusts him to keep to the terms of a new one?

PT was right!

To the ALPA MEC, you might need one of these.
This goes to show you that the few posters on here who constantly chant last pay to the last day , dont have a clue. These leaders see "THE FACTS" ! Based on the "facts" their making calls they should make up or down. Plain and simple isnt it?
 
700UW said:
Let them shut it down all ready, outsourcing? there goes maintenance, and I know myself and my coworkers won't line Bronner's wallet with our blood.

In December of 2002 when Bronner threanten labor and we gave them the work rules they wanted, now they want more, SCREW THEM.

NO AIRLINE HAS EVER BEEN SAVED FROM THE HYDES OF THE EMPLOYEES!


Outsourcing will kill this country mark my words.
When i hear you speak! It frightens me! Using those very words says alot ! Ill let your words speak for themselves!
 
PITbull said:
And those of you who want to give everything there is up...DO US A FAVOR AND LEAVE.
When I hear your words its frightens me more ! Your in MY union and thank God in no closness to any "major Power"
 
Bob,

The issue of outsourcing maybe cheaper for a company and make some business sense, to a person on the outside, or the person who collects frequent flying miles and looks for lower fares, the issue is JOBS. JOBS. JOBS, JOBS. Livable wage supoorting jobs.

The IAM needs to fight, until the lights go out on this issue, if its on any table.
 
I will not deal with thieves and lairs and treat them as honorable men and women. I am fully prepared to walk away from it and not look back. There is no amicable agreement with these heathens. They do not honor their word or written commitment and there is no need to pursue any more agreements for them not to follow. Turn out the lights.

--Burn your miles baby.
 
Pitguy....I stand by you. I WILL NOT VOTE FOR ANYTHING THAT IS NOT GOING TO GIVE ME MORE. Let the doors close. I think I might sleep better at night.
 
700uw, You are so right !!! The MEC and Pilots eat there young and don't have a backbone! If this company survives, they can be happy flying left seat at MDA at 58,000!!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:
 
700uw, You are so right !!! The MEC and Pilots eat there young and don't have a backbone! If this company survives, they can be happy flying left seat at MDA at 58,000!!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:
 
700uw, You are so right !!! The MEC and Pilots eat there young and don't have a backbone! If this company survives, they can be happy flying left seat at MDA at 58,000!!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:
 
i will not ask them for money but i will ask for productivity. However, we have to be realistic, and outsource the same things that the other carriers outsource.
conclusive evidence of the man behind the lawsuit.......
yes lets be serious,i'm all for it...lets follow delta's example...
 
passed_over said:
It would be nice if mainline ALPA does not sell the WO's down the road once again and give everything away to MESA
You're kidding, right? Remember, you're talking about the guys who sold out their own less senior pilots, more than once, to attempt to keep the good life!

ALPA would sell their souls, wives and children to the devil, or Osama if they thought they could get the promise of a better deal for the future!

Don't think that the WO's even cross their mind for a second!
 
You people amaze me, this company has shown total distain towards it workers, violated every contract on the books that they agreed to and now you are willing to let them take more, AMAZING! How can you trust them when they have lied to all the employees all along?
 

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