S&p Downgrades Us Airways Again

[PITbull]

So, 4Amerrestrat,

If they are not at poverty, should they go down to poverty????

Doc is correct. If U didnt' spend much of the operating revenue on RJ purchase, we would have shown a profit this quarter.

 

[FWAAA]

GECAS in discussions with US Airways about future of RJ fiancing:

http://biz.yahoo.com/rf/040505/airlines_usair_gecas_1.html

 

[airlineorphan]

4merresrat quoted savyinvestor:

QUOTE (savyinvestor @ May 5 2004, 06:39 PM)
I have. Looks like the company wants to ELIMINATE the mechanics, CWA is already at poverty wages, and like I said I'm not sure about the AFA. So faced with that the only group left is the pilots. PORTION DELETED BY MODERATOR

and then declared:
Oh please, lets hold the melodrama down to a dull roar. "CWA is at poverty level." Give me a break. Many people would be thrilled to make $15.00-$18.00 an hour for a relatively unskilled positions. If you think you are at poverty level now, I hate to see you if U goes under and your out pounding the pavement. Not that I wish that on anyone but Please!

Umm... since when is Res an unskilled job? Sure, perhaps the bean-counters at the Department of Labor might categorize it as such, and Res and other CSR's may not have to get certificated, but managing reservations via SABRE? The ability of complex abstract thinking and on the spot problem solving that the job requires is phenomenal. Not to mention the troubleshooting Res has to do to clean of BBB's messes. So no, CSR's are not in the least unskilled labor in real terms.

I've always been in awe of the work that the CSR's do, and as for poverty wages, you couldn't pay me ENOUGH to do the kind of high stress work they do. And in today's economy, I'd be pretty impressed to see someone manage a family budget on what CSR's are presently making.

-Airlineorphan

 

[Doc]

4merresrat quoted savyinvestor:


and then declared:
Oh please, lets hold the melodrama down to a dull roar. "CWA is at poverty level." Give me a break. Many people would be thrilled to make $15.00-$18.00 an hour for a relatively unskilled positions. If you think you are at poverty level now, I hate to see you if U goes under and your out pounding the pavement. Not that I wish that on anyone but Please!

Umm... since when is Res an unskilled job? Sure, perhaps the bean-counters at the Department of Labor might categorize it as such, and Res and other CSR's may not have to get certificated, but managing reservations via SABRE? The ability of complex abstract thinking and on the spot problem solving that the job requires is phenomenal. Not to mention the troubleshooting Res has to do to clean of BBB's messes. So no, CSR's are not in the least unskilled labor in real terms.

I've always been in awe of the work that the CSR's do, and as for poverty wages, you couldn't pay me ENOUGH to do the kind of high stress work they do. And in today's economy, I'd be pretty impressed to see someone manage a family budget on what CSR's are presently making.

-Airlineorphan [/quote]
THANK YOU FOR SEEING THAT CSR JOBS ARE STRESSFULL .
YOU ARE NOT THE FIRST ONE TO SAY YOU COULDN'T PAY ME ENOUGH.

 

[airlineorphan]

DOC, you are quite welcome. We are in the grips of beancounters and cyphers from the finance sector, both amongst our creditors and our new management "team." These folks have no competence in managing any company that does anything (production or transportation) and will treat employees as inconvenient factors in an economic equation.

It's always driven me crazy when human details of reality are dismissed and ignored. Calling CSR's unskilled rips me about as much as the old canard about flight attendants being "overpaid waitresses in the sky." Setting aside the fact that a flight attendant job is not the same, the comparison assumes that waitress jobs are simple-minded easy jobs that deserve low pay. I'd like to see some Wall Street types manage 25 tables at lunch hour at a busy diner for just one day.... (those MBA types who did so while working their way through college probably have more respect for the work people do....).

So many things taken for granted!!!

In solidarity,
Airlineorphan

 

[Doc]

DOC, you are quite welcome. We are in the grips of beancounters and cyphers from the finance sector, both amongst our creditors and our new management "team." These folks have no competence in managing any company that does anything (production or transportation) and will treat employees as inconvenient factors in an economic equation.

It's always driven me crazy when human details of reality are dismissed and ignored. Calling CSR's unskilled rips me about as much as the old canard about flight attendants being "overpaid waitresses in the sky." Setting aside the fact that a flight attendant job is not the same, the comparison assumes that waitress jobs are simple-minded easy jobs that deserve low pay. I'd like to see some Wall Street types manage 25 tables at lunch hour at a busy diner for just one day.... (those MBA types who did so while working their way through college probably have more respect for the work people do....).

So many things taken for granted!!!

In solidarity,
Airlineorphan

And don't forget the unrulely customers weather they be in a resturant or in front of you at the counter it takes a special person to be in front line cust. services.

 

[A Baby Ate My Dingo]

4merresrat quoted savyinvestor:


and then declared:
Oh please, lets hold the melodrama down to a dull roar. "CWA is at poverty level." Give me a break. Many people would be thrilled to make $15.00-$18.00 an hour for a relatively unskilled positions. If you think you are at poverty level now, I hate to see you if U goes under and your out pounding the pavement. Not that I wish that on anyone but Please!

Umm... since when is Res an unskilled job? [/quote]
Does one need to possess a bachelor's degree or associate's degree to work res?

 

[airlineorphan]

Does one need to possess a bachelor's degree or associate's degree to work res?

Nope, but if you actually read the rest of what I wrote you will understand that I am not staking my claim on that basis. You don't need a BA or Associates degree to work lots of jobs which actually require a high level of skill. Does a Harvard MBA give someone the skills to run an airline? Evidence (Siegel) so far suggests little relationship between degrees and skills. Most skills in most jobs are actually learned in life and on-the-job.

I'd love to see some of the folks belittling Res (or other jobs) as "unskilled" do spend a day in an "unskilled" worker's shoes.

Gotta run to my second job....
-Airlineorphan

 

[A Baby Ate My Dingo]

Nope, but if you actually read the rest of what I wrote you will understand that I am not staking my claim on that basis. You don't need a BA or Associates degree to work lots of jobs which actually require a high level of skill. Does a Harvard MBA give someone the skills to run an airline? Evidence (Siegel) so far suggests little relationship between degrees and skills. Most skills in most jobs are actually learned in life and on-the-job.

I'd love to see some of the folks belittling Res (or other jobs) as "unskilled" do spend a day in an "unskilled" worker's shoes.

Well, of course, by your definition, everything would be a skilled position, right?

Tomato picking would be a skilled job as it takes some skill to actually pick tomatoes as opposed to mashing them betwixt one's fat, little fingers.

Garbage collecting would be a skilled job as it takes training to operate the levers that compacts trash in the trash truck.

Being a professional whore would be a skilled job as it takes training to give a 5 minute BJ or two service three guys at once.

But, of course, AO, lives in Utopia. Too bad message board poster isn't a listed profession, because AO would certainly be in upper management with all the ad nauseum typing and class warfare B.S.

 

[insp89]

Well, of course, by your definition, everything would be a skilled position, right?

Tomato picking would be a skilled job as it takes some skill to actually pick tomatoes as opposed to mashing them betwixt one's fat, little fingers.

Garbage collecting would be a skilled job as it takes training to operate the levers that compacts trash in the trash truck.

Being a professional whore would be a skilled job as it takes training to give a 5 minute BJ or two service three guys at once.

But, of course, AO, lives in Utopia. Too bad message board poster isn't a listed profession, because AO would certainly be in upper management with all the ad nauseum typing and class warfare B.S.

Could it be that some of us are educated beyond our own intelligence ?

 

[funguy2]

Many of you keep saying something like, "if we did not order the RJ's, we would have been profitable this quarter". I do not understand this statement.

Operating Loss for US Airways was $143Mil. Generally speaking, I don't know if a deposit on an aircraft order is even expensed, and if it is, whether or not it would be expensed as an operating expense, or below operating expenses (to be counted in the net loss area, rather than operating loss area).

Quite frankly, I would think, although I am no expert, that a deposit on aircraft would only be a cash flow and balance sheet item, and not be part of the income statement at all.

Can somebody site the source for this statement I keep reading over and over: "if we did not order the RJ's, we would have been profitable this quarter".

The expenses did have a rather sizeable "other" amount of $324mil (more than aircraft rent, other rent and landing fees, and maintenance expense combined).

So can somebody clarify where this came from?

 

[EyeInTheSky]

I have. Looks like the company wants to ELIMINATE the mechanics, CWA is already at poverty wages, and like I said I'm not sure about the AFA. So faced with that the only group left is the pilots. PORTION DELETED BY MODERATOR

savyinvestor, we know what side you butter your bread on. Problem is, your bread is stale and moldy. Get over yourself.

 

[USA320Pilot]

US Airways downgrade threatens big aircraft deal

Analyst: "The economics are getting uglier by the minute"

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - US Airways Group Inc. hit more damaging turbulence on Wednesday when its corporate credit rating spiraled deeper into junk and threatened the huge aircraft financing deal underpinning its restructuring.

See Story

Regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[FWAAA]

Many of you keep saying something like, "if we did not order the RJ's, we would have been profitable this quarter". I do not understand this statement.

Operating Loss for US Airways was $143Mil. Generally speaking, I don't know if a deposit on an aircraft order is even expensed, and if it is, whether or not it would be expensed as an operating expense, or below operating expenses (to be counted in the net loss area, rather than operating loss area).

Quite frankly, I would think, although I am no expert, that a deposit on aircraft would only be a cash flow and balance sheet item, and not be part of the income statement at all.

Can somebody site the source for this statement I keep reading over and over: "if we did not order the RJ's, we would have been profitable this quarter".

The expenses did have a rather sizeable "other" amount of $324mil (more than aircraft rent, other rent and landing fees, and maintenance expense combined).

So can somebody clarify where this came from?

I agree with you.

The new airplanes would only impact the income statement to the extent of the current rent payments for leased airplanes plus the interest expense of purchased airplanes. Since rent and interest didn't dramatically increase during Q1, it is fundamental that the current operating losses are not a result of new aircraft orders. The revenue is not high enough, and the expenses are not low enough. Simple as that. Fixing it might prove to be too complex a problem, however.

But why should they let facts get in the way of a good rant?? B)

 

[insp89]

I agree with you.

The new airplanes would only impact the income statement to the extent of the current rent payments for leased airplanes plus the interest expense of purchased airplanes. Since rent and interest didn't dramatically increase during Q1, it is fundamental that the current operating losses are not a result of new aircraft orders. The revenue is not high enough, and the expenses are not low enough. Simple as that. Fixing it might prove to be too complex a problem, however.

But why should they let facts get in the way of a good rant?? B)

Could the last quarter loss have anything to do with the $250 million ATSB PREPAYMENT ????