Reoranization Plan to be Filed Tonight

[Biffeman]

[P]
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]On 12/20/2002 2:44:02 PM chipmunn wrote:
[P][FONT size=3][FONT face='"Times' Roman" New]Biff:[BR][BR]Biff said: "I have my democratic right to support my union and get the best deal possible to impact myself and my comembers."[BR][BR]Chip comments: You absolutely have a democratic right to support your union, but you do not have a morale right to purposely misinform or misrepresent facts. [/FONT][FONT face='"Times' Roman" New]Biff, with all due respect, can you tell me how you will get the "best deal possible" if the airline does not meet the ATSB 7 percent profit margin and liquidates? It seems the UAL employees got a cold dose of reality with their ATSB rejection; therefore, most observers believe the IAM and AFA could significantly influence the same result at US, thus joepordizing the carrier remaining an on-going concern. It's funny how the IAM is at it again 10 years later at another East Coast carrier; however, let's not forget the PBGC is still out there. Without a pension modification like struck between ALPA and the company, the IAM and AFA are at greater risk of having their retirement plan frozen, distress terminated, or a voluntary termination as a result of [FONT color=black][SPAN Times-Roman" FONT-FAMILY: black; COLOR: 11.5pt;]the company only capable of meeting minimum funding requirements and the negative performance of [/SPAN][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][FONT size=3][FONT face='"Times' Roman" New][FONT color=black][SPAN Times-Roman" FONT-FAMILY: black; COLOR: 11.5pt;]financial and equity markets.[BR][BR]Maybe the company will play the PBGC card and those unions without new concessions will lose their pension saving the company over $150 million per year for hte next six years for a total of about $930 million. Who knows? [/SPAN][/FONT][BR][BR]By the way, you didn't answer my question. Do you have the courage to honestly identify yourself on this message board instead of misrepresenting facts?[BR][/FONT][BR][FONT face='"Times' Roman" New]Chip[/FONT][/FONT][/P]----------------[/BLOCKQUOTE]
[P][/P]Chip No Airline is going to hit 7% revenue return, that is why U is getting that money from us once again, every airline except WN and JB are hurting, laying off, grounding airplanes, vendoring out work. When are you gonna get it and realize the industry is broken and U will never get 7% return. And let the PBGC freeze my pension, I will get my full value cause my pension is less then the slightly over $3,000 a month limit, is yours?[BR][BR]Why dont you post the facts that you are scared, realize I am not. And your union ALPA, struck Eastern as did the TWU, why dont you post facts instead of misrepresenting them? I can go thru your observer article and pick out each misrepresentation when it came to "your" facts in regards to the IAM and CWA.

 

[Biffeman]

DH8 no we wont show a profit next year, or for a few years, I would bet you right now on it![BR][BR]
[P][FONT size=4][BIG class=pr]Reuters[/BIG][BR][/FONT][SPAN class=t]RESEARCH ALERT-UBS sees more losses for U.S. airlines in 2003[/SPAN][BR][SPAN class=tt]Friday December 20, 1:59 pm ET[/SPAN]
[P]
[DIV class=ar]NEW YORK, Dec 20 (Reuters) - The U.S. airline industry is likely to post more losses next year, with bankruptcies and a potential war causing a rough ride, an influential analyst said on Friday.
[P]Sam Buttrick of UBS Warburg said the airlines should rack up $7.4 billion in losses for 2002 and another $3.6 billion in 2003.[BR][BR]Although Buttrick's 2002 estimate, which excludes charges, would far surpass the $6.2 billion of losses from 2001, he expects fourth-quarter losses to narrow slightly to about $2.5 billion from a year earlier. [/P]
[P]Quarterly results are comparatively unimportant, he said, given the potential in 2003 for a war with Iraq that could depress first- and second-quarter revenue some 6 percent to 8 percent from current lackluster levels.
[P]Buttrick said his estimates do not fully factor in an Iraq war and do not reflect the possibility that United or US Airways could succumb to liquidation.
[P]Major U.S. airlines have rung up huge losses since the Sept. 11 attacks and two -- United Airlines (NYSE:[A href="http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=ual&d=t"]UAL[/A] - [A href="http://biz.yahoo.com/n/u/ual.html"]News[/A]) and US Airways Group Inc. (OTC BB:[A href="http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=uawgq.ob&d=t"]UAWGQ.OB[/A] - [A href="http://biz.yahoo.com/n/u/uawgq.ob.html"]News[/A]) -- filed for bankruptcy this year.
[P]Buttrick said he does not expect more bankruptcy filings among carriers of consequence next year.
[P]Other major carriers, such as American Airlines parent AMR Corp. (NYSE:[A href="http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=amr&d=t"]AMR[/A] - [A href="http://biz.yahoo.com/n/a/amr.html"]News[/A]), Delta Air Lines (NYSE:[A href="http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=dal&d=t"]DAL[/A] - [A href="http://biz.yahoo.com/n/d/dal.html"]News[/A]), Northwest Airlines (NasdaqNM:[A href="http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=nwac&d=t"]NWAC[/A] - [A href="http://biz.yahoo.com/n/n/nwac.html"]News[/A]) and Continental Airlines (NYSE:[A href="http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=cal&d=t"]CAL[/A] - [A href="http://biz.yahoo.com/n/c/cal.html"]News[/A]), continue to suffer because of weak revenue from key business airfares.
[P]Revenue trends in October and November were both below monthly forecasts, but holiday travel remains a comparative bright spot given overall weak demand, Buttrick said.
[P]Airlines continue to cut capacity, lower unit costs and gain some labor stability, but oil prices have spiked and revenue remains down about 25 percent since 2000, he said.
[P]"Airline managers are talking a brave game on costs," Buttrick said, "but have comparatively little to show for it in terms of dramatic unit cost decline."[/P][/DIV]

 

[DakotaHC8]

It comes right back to the topic at hand to reiterate that barring a sucessful ratification of the probable TA's about to be announced that our financing will be lost and the company will liquidate to resolve our outstanding debts.

The fact is this: we are at the make or break point, and management has run out of time. The RSA does not want to lose money. It has made it clear that it needs these cuts to give it the security in its investment if the United States goes to war. The RSA is only looking out for it's self, but you cannot fault them for trying to insure that their money does not get wasted.

With the additional cuts in hand US Airways will be one of the few airlines to show a profit in 2003. Although giving additional concessions to just show a profit sounds extreme, realize that our future depends upon financing. AND NO ONE WILL FINANACE US UNLESS WE SHOW A PROFIT.

As it is now, they can shut us down and have a yard sale, which would mean that the RSA would get back most/all of its investment up to this point. But if they sink the additional funds into us our assets would not be enough collateral to recoop the funbds the RSA put into us.

So thats that. My point was that the AFA said they would go along if everyone else did, which leaves only the IAM to decide our future. I pointed out that in the past with Eastern the brinkmanship brought that carrier down. Everyone else has stepped up for a second time, so see what your union negotiated and think hard about what your vote means. Thats all anyone can ask

 

[chipmunn]

USAirBoy330:[BR][BR]USAirBoy330 asked: Care to tell us your thoughts on what might come out of this POR tonight? Might it contain anything shocking or even the least bit interesting? And I think AFA (I can't speak for IAM) are probably close to an agreement. Seems the company is confident enough that it will get what it needs to go ahead and file the POR.[BR][BR]Chip comments: [FONT size=2]I have been told the AFA and the company are in active negotiations and I agree there should be a deal announced shortly between the parties. I'm not sure about the IAM because the last two positions posted on the IAM website are not close. I fully expected negotiations to go down to the deadline because they always do; however, not only is the POR important, so is the ATSB, PBGC, and the politics involved between the US congressional delegation, Senator Specter, and the Bush Administration lead by Secretary's Chao, O'Neil and Evans.[BR][BR]I believe the company must file the POR ASAP and get its financing before war breaks out. ALPA believes the "threat of liquidation" is real and so do I. In regard to the POR, there have been "no leaks"; therefore, it will be interesting to see its final form. I also understand the Charlotte Observer is researching the report that PSA has been sold to Mesa.[BR][/FONT][BR]Chip [BR][BR]

 

[BillLumbergh]

Click here for follow-ups and replies:[BR]
[P][A href="http://www.usaviation.com/idealbb/view.asp?topicID=2734&sessionID={102A7F76-DFC1-4B69-AB15-892C4D0ABB48}"][FONT color=#336699]US AIRWAYS FILES PLAN OF REORGANIZATION[/FONT][/A].[/P]