Pilot whose gun went off will be fired

[EastUS]

It's not my opinion, it's a statement made by a Check Airman.

Oh REALLY?...WHO/when/what was supposedly said?

"The fact that you like someone doesn't mean they don't deserve to be terminated." You may thank Allmighty God for the reverse fact that finding complete contempt for some supposed "Brother Pilot" isn't cause for termination either "sir", or a there'd be a sizeable list forming up as we speak to vouch for your "Character" :angry:

 

[dariencc]

As I stated in response to another poster, when it comes to us represented employees most of our companies don't even bother starting a termination proceeding unless they have a reasonable expectation of winning.

I understand that this is the internet, jimntx, where everyone is a star, but the above statement stands out as one of the most absurd in the checkered history of this forum. You have no knowledge of how "most of our companies" handle these matters, only your own. In the specific case of US Airways, the company in question, your assumption is flat out wrong. Firing as a tool of intimidation and example setting exists, and the company always loses those cases at the system board. It doesn't seem to stop them the next time.

This is an argument of the "you don't like peanut butter and jelly sandwiches; so you must not like BLTs" school of illogic.

Thanks for the logic lesson. Please apply it to the above. Because something wouldn't happen where you work doesn't mean it wouldn't happen here.

This whole thread is pure speculation and opinion anyway.

I never would have known. :down:

 

[ClueByFour]

And on the 96% of flights that have no FAMs, we can all be confident that the bad guys are incapable of devising a plan that would take the "100s of people" out of the equation. Thanks so much, I feel better already.

Quite frankly, I don't give a rats behind how you feel. You have the benefit of an armored door. The rest of us are the ones who will end up dealing with the problem. In the new paradigm, the cheap seats are up front. Everyone else is going to end up dealing with the problem before any of our newly minted FFDO Dirty Harrys have the chance to draw their heat and rely on their extensive training to solve the problem.

Pilots won't be saviors. Your job is to continue driving the bus to the station and let those with actual skin in the game deal with the problem.

As for your previously stated confidence in the highly trained law enforcement (non FAMs) types we have traveling aboard, rest assured that any notions of these folks as a parade of Jack Ryan clones is absurd. More common would be the overweight slob from a local Pennsylvania Sheriff's office, the 23 year old sweetie from the Smithsonian Institution, or the gung ho Barney Fife from the Agriculture Department. The number of people and agencies authorized to carry weapons on commercial aircraft is astounding, and I can assure you that they have no special training for this "mission." Their knowledge of issues specific to the discharge of weapons on aircraft would as a rule be non existent.

I'm quite certain I've seen a small requirement that anyone carrying on a plane these days has to at very least pass the class about flying while carrying. The vast majority of the feds who carry spend more time at FLETC than the FFDOs do on the range alone. The vast majority also have more stringent qualification and requal courses of fire than the FFDO program.

In essence, it's likely that even the overweight slob from a PA Sheriff's office has as much firearm training as the FFDO does. The feds (even the Ag guys) all have more.

And, as your colleague vividly illustrated, all the background checks, training, and such in conjunction with his stellar firearm handling skills resulted in a .40 cal (probably somewhat larger, if they got any expansion on the panel and skin) hole in a jet. Under 10k, in a sterile environment, no less. Judgment and ability--your man is a perfect example of why pilots ought to stick to what they know--driving the bus and leaving defense to people who can get it holstered without blowing a hole in something.

You should stick to your light-twin wannabe flying at the local FBO, and spare the rest of us your half baked theories. :down:

Wilco. Want to know what the difference between me and a US Airways pilot is? I've never had a negligent discharge in flight. Or anywhere else, for that matter.

As above--stick to driving the freaking bus. That's really the only thing any pilot in the FFDO program can legitimately claim proficiency in, anyway.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

Man, aren't WE self important!

 

[WHISPERJETT]

Fly the plane,F/A's arm yourself with hot coffee and a spork....

 

[EastUS]

Man, aren't WE self important!

No joke there...Words truly fail me..."Wilco. Want to know what the difference between me and a US Airways pilot is?"...Ummm...not really..I've some notions already...but if pressed, I'll take: "Life forms that don't even live on the same planet" for a thousand

"Wilco" ??? Anybody ever actually use, or even hear that upstairs?

 

[dariencc]

No joke there...Words truly fail me...

I'll just go with "Wilco" Anybody ever actually use, or even hear that upstairs?

Yeah. On Sky King.

 

[EastUS]

Yeah. On Sky King.

Hey!..No dis'in' Sky King: "Out of the clear blue western skies comes Sky King, and the Songbird" I loved the look of that old straight-tail 310 as a kid

But to business: I'd say it's in all our best interests to do whatever's possible to keep a good man and pilot who simply had an unfortuante accident. Said accident, while easilly ridiculed, and very, very unfortunate, and in no way a "good thing" will yet, most likely, effect beneficial changes in the FFDO program. I say we fire Cheney for starters, if we're to embark on any "Righteous" terminations for weapons accidents. Seriously; this has been "an accident waiting to happen" due to the ridiculous protocols inherent withthe carry/stowage..rinse/spin/repeat/etc..best part= "Now kids..don't try this at home..we're going to shove a thick lock through a trigger guard of a loaded weapon. without a safety....that we can't fully see the trigger area on....thousands of times"....It's little short of miraculous that this has actually taken so long for the odds to finally catch up.

 

[dariencc]

I loved the look of that old straight-tail 310 as a kid

Ditto. But if it wasn't for that SOB, I'd probably be a lawyer.

 

[EastUS]

Ditto. But if it wasn't for that SOB, I'd probably be a lawyer.

Ah...good sir...but then; you now might well be facing Hell itself Consider..your average work day would likely be spent interacting with yet more lawyers. There's always trade-offs in life Never met a good cloud-streaked sunset/sunrise I didn't like...courtrooms?....I'll pass.

 

[sharktooth]

Wilco. Want to know what the difference between me and a US Airways pilot is? I've never had a negligent discharge in flight. Or anywhere else, for that matter.

Have you ever thought about being a straight man for a comedian? One liners for Leno?

 

[Edward]

Please follow this in our new forum "Alphabet Soup" which is our new forum for aviation security & other issues.

 

[ua767fo]

Funny thing, Dick Cheney wasn't fired when he nearly killed one of his friends while hunting.

USAirways management is absolutely reprehensible.

Denver, CO

 

[CactusFlyr]

It never should have been out of the holster, I am sure that is the question and reason for action. Was anyone attempting to breach the flight deck??? Wuuppppssssss........ My Bad.

 

[BobbyBuckInAtlanta]

Sorry folks, but give the man a second chance!!! Should they take away his permit to carry while at work, absolutely!!! But fire him, NO WAY!!!!!!

Parker still working after his DUI? How about the IT team who assured all there would be little problem with the Res Cutover? How about the person who forgets to ship a part resulting in 12hrs of additional a/c downtime? How about the mechanic who makes an error?

The FFDO program is not mandatory company program, sure he screwed up, but so have many others at this company, Hell if he was upper management and this happened they would make him a VP!!!!

Not to diminish your other examples, but those mistakes don't cost live's. If they don't fire him, at the very least they should suspend him and remove him from the ffdo program. IMO. My opinion would be the same had it been a FAM. There's no room for mistake's. Though we're all human, and make mistake's, some can not be over looked. Those of us in safety related position's shoulder a greater responsibility than say accounting.