Pilot Pension Progress?

[PITbull]

Bob,

Yes, you and I are definitely polarized on this issue. We shared viewpoints in previous posts on the merits and disadvantages of DPP.

In the late 70s and 80s the steel mill industry was in peril, and some co.s didn't make it. DPP were terminated, and I know I don't need to give you a history lesson. You could most definitely give it to me. However, there are companies that still have a DPP and went into BK and emerged with the pension benefit intact. Teachers, police offiers, firemen, some retail industries, state workers have a defined plan. Approx. 44 Million Americans have a defined plan. Folks that have a DPP also participate in a 401K plan if they can afford to. What's great about the DP monies are pretty much guaranteed at retirement, if you never could afford to have a 401k. But still not enough to retire on, as medical costs and long term care for the elderly is enormous. With that anticipation, folks generally try and fund a 401K too. But, like anything in life, there are no guarantees. No guarantees for Social Security either, we just hope it will still be there when we retire. If you have all three, it makes for a fairly secure retirement existence, even if one part of that equation fails.

I am not trying to convince you Bob of this view point. I am just sharing with folks why I can conceive of a DPP, rather than any other plan.[img I wonder if RSA would think that Corporate America should move away from the DPP. That would be an interesting take.src='http://www.usaviation.com/idealbb/images/smilies/5.gif'] Employees can choose to augment their retirement plans with other investing vehicles, but to eliminate DPP so a company execs can profit by receiving more stock options as perks, and showing that profit to drive their given stock up, I will not agree.

 

[fatherabraham]

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On 2/23/2003 5:54:29 PM PineyBob wrote:

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On 2/23/2003 5:18:19 PM RowUnderDCA wrote:

I agree that DBRP's seem sooo twentieth century and not at all attractive to me. And I'm not that young, but I don't want to hitch my future to some corporation. Geez, I'm having second and third thoughts about having it hitched to the Bush Administration!

But you've got to sympathetic to the folks caught in a transition to a different kind of plan.

Do future pilots really want to continue this "all or nothing" dependence on the health of one corporation for their whole career? Can't ALPA help free their members from this trap? I'm no conservative... more like a hard-hearted liberal, but it just doesn't appeal to me.
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I think one of the things that needs to happen and happen quickly is this tendancy to label ourselves and others. I will be first in line to confess this particular sin just so long as the rest of you line up behind me!

I am just plain Bob! Not PineyBob, Not Conservative Bob, Liberal or even Libertarian Bob. I am after all just a guy who gets up each and everyday and tries to live his life honestly and modestly.

All of this labeling reminds me of the novel by George Orwell "Animal Farm" The sheep bleating "Four Legs Good, Two Legs bad"! So much creativity and good ideas get stifled due to the one group who thought it up being labeled. Then everybody has to pick a side on the issue du jour. Consequently nothing happens or worse something happens that is a watered down version of the good idea which many times is worse than the bad situation you are trying to fix.

Labor Unions are the worst when it comes to this kind of thinking. Don't hit quote yet! Management isn't all that far behind when it comes to having the "But we've always done it this way" Blinders on!

As to the current situation, look at US's position, days away from a possible liquidation. Has anybody thought that maybe the way you've been doing it is WRONG. Good Grief try something new. Get creative! Dare to be different. How much worse than broke can you get! And just FYI I'm ranting at both sides. Try to take this situation and turn it into a competitive advantage. NO! Don't ask me how, it's not my industry, but I'll tell you one thing and that is that the culture of mistrust needs to change yesterday before real progress can be made.
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[/blockquote]


Bob,

I did not respond to your reply of mine in another thread for i knew it would be a waste of time. Your views seem to ring true with the majority of posters...so it is i who will go away or @ least return to lurking. I will note you did not specifically respond , but as I said i give up.

Now to above quote, finally I agree...i will get in line right behind you. Prior to my insults aimed @ you, there were no other personal attacks. Rather i argued a position or against one. I did not insult anyone else or label folks like " arrogant pilots " etc. as you confessed.

Thank You for the post, I welcome the change

 

[fatherabraham]

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On 2/24/2003 11:00:47 AM PineyBob wrote:

Just a clarification,
Labeling a person or group as arrogant or selfish or whatever usually comes from some basis in fact. These are not always a bad thing.

Think about it, would you want an orthopedic surgeon who wasn't the cockiest, arrogant SOB on 2 legs cutting you open? I know I wouldn't.

Where the trouble starts is when we start labeling with a "Broad Brush". Racial & Cultural stereotypes are the bain of our existance and people who exploit those differences are everywhere. Somehow we must rise above that type of behavior.

We've all heard that blacks are good dancers, Jews are tight with a buck, and pilots are arrogant! Are there blacks that suck as dancers, Jews who spend into BK and pilots who are humble and kind?? Of course there are and that's what we need to remember.

Are all Democrats philandering liars? NO! Just one was and he happened to be President.

My point is that a great many of, NOT ALL of the pilots posting here come across as arrogant and selfish to me. So if I was painting with that "Broad Brush" I apologize! It's just that you can paint so much faster, the problem is you paint over parts of the truth when you do.
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Bob,

Like you, I can only guess how well the few pilot posters on this board represent the group. But i can tell you that after working here for a long time you are painting this pilot group in the wrong light. To the contrary of your experience at being snubbed by pilots, I have found this group in particular to be generally speaking " quite humble ". I realize the traveling public has little one on one with this group and therefore may misinterpret their humility by viewing their behavior in the terminals.

I have a challenge for you...next time you see a crew with time to spare ask to visit the cockpit. I am confident you will change your view.

Btw, opology accepted. I opologize as well.