Pay Raises

[2BlacknBlue]

You can paint it whatever color you choose but a pay-cut is a pay-cut is a pay-cut !

So they took cuts, just like non-union peeps, except they paid union dues to take them ?

But didn't AA's re-negotiated contract continue to allow the AA employees a better overall compensation package, including paying union dues, than DL?

 

[Kev3188]

You can paint it whatever color you choose but a pay-cut is a pay-cut is a pay-cut !

So they took cuts, just like non-union peeps, except they paid union dues to take them ?

They collectively decided to ratify a T/A vs. being told to "take it or leave it."

BIG difference, no matter how badly you want to believe otherwise.

 

[southwind]

They collectively decided to ratify a T/A vs. being told to "take it or leave it."

BIG difference, no matter how badly you want to believe otherwise.

Let me put my rose-colored glasses on !

 

[2BlacknBlue]

Let me put my rose-colored glasses on !

south,
I'm sincerely trying to see things your way. AA makes $5581-69.00 in union dues=$5512/month after the TA agreed concessions. AA employees still have a (FAE) final average earnings pension. Conversely, DL makes $5383 and DL has not even contributed enough to the pension plan to even receive your cash balance upon leaving. Not to even mention losing 1 week of vacation and mostly ALL of your sick time.

And you think DL employees should remain non-union because.......

 

[southwind]

south,
I'm sincerely trying to see things your way. AA makes $5581-69.00 in union dues=$5512/month after the TA agreed concessions. AA employees still have a (FAE) final average earnings pension. Conversely, DL makes $5383 and DL has not even contributed enough to the pension plan to even receive your cash balance upon leaving. Not to even mention losing 1 week of vacation and mostly ALL of your sick time.

And you think DL employees should remain non-union because.......

I never said DL employees should remain non-union ! Now, do I think the voting rules should not be changed to represent the minority ! It should take 51% of "AFFECTED" employees to bring a union in, not 51% of the people who vote !

After seeing unions take paycuts,under contract, whether negoiated or not, it's still a cut, NW mechs going on strike, losing their jobs , because fellow union brethren, would not honor their picket line, I guess some of us are just hard pressed to see the benefits of paying money for nothin' and are taking our chances with the other evil empire!

You talk about how companys treat employees...............how did the IAM treat AMFA ?

 

[2BlacknBlue]

I never said DL employees should remain non-union ! Now, do I think the voting rules should not be changed to represent the minority ! It should take 51% of "AFFECTED" employees to bring a union in, not 51% of the people who vote !

Would a dead employee count as affected? One ended up on the DL flight attendant ballot. Should thousands of furloughees, who've moved on to greener pastures count as a "no", when the company nor the union could contact them? Dammit, if management represents your best interests, then get off your ### and vote no. If you think a union would represent your best interests, then vote yes. Otherwise, shut up! You have no reason to complain! Easy as that!

 

[Airlinelifer]

Would a dead employee count as affected? One ended up on the DL flight attendant ballot. Should thousands of furloughees, who've moved on to greener pastures count as a "no", when the company nor the union could contact them? Dammit, if management represents your best interests, then get off your ### and vote no. If you think a union would represent your best interests, then vote yes. Otherwise, shut up! You have no reason to complain! Easy as that!

Don't waste your keystrokes on "wind". It's way to hard for the anti's to vote by picking up the phone and deal with all those confusing prompts or get online and have to deal with those passwords. The nerve of the NMB to make it so hard to vote your conscience. Maybe the NMB will make us use our local polling stations......lol

 

[southwind]

Would a dead employee count as affected? One ended up on the DL flight attendant ballot. Should thousands of furloughees, who've moved on to greener pastures count as a "no", when the company nor the union could contact them? Dammit, if management represents your best interests, then get off your ### and vote no. If you think a union would represent your best interests, then vote yes. Otherwise, shut up! You have no reason to complain! Easy as that!

And this is exactely another reason why people like me are anti-union ! I try to give you a reasonable explanation about my thoughts on unions and people like you go off the deep-end defending them................well all I can say is good luck and when Delta starts touting " If you don't want a union, make sure and vote!" don't start yer whining, remember you and your ilk wanted the rule change ! :down:

See Ya' !

 

[2BlacknBlue]

And this is exactely another reason why people like me are anti-union ! I try to give you a reasonable explanation about my thoughts on unions and people like you go off the deep-end defending them................well all I can say is good luck and when Delta starts touting " If you don't want a union, make sure and vote!" don't start yer whining, remember you and your ilk wanted the rule change ! :down:

See Ya' !

...defending them? What them? Who's them? I defend the decision to say yes, I defend the decision to say no. I also feel that if you don't care enough to vote either way, then you just don't care. And if you don't care, YOU DON'T COUNT!
I'm amazed. In 1982, the DL employees raised $30 million in payroll deductions to purchase a 767, known as the Spirit of Delta. In 2006, once again the DL employees listened to managements call to thwart a hostile take-over by US Airways by rallies, informationals, etc.. But in 2010, you find it difficult to even pick up a phone, enter your PIN, and vote no.

The wonders never cease...

 

[BoeingBoy]

Would a dead employee count as affected? One ended up on the DL flight attendant ballot. Should thousands of furloughees, who've moved on to greener pastures count as a "no", when the company nor the union could contact them?

If they counted, the union didn't do it's job. Employees on the list of eligible voters who have a "Changes in status" - which includes death - can be challenged and removed from the list of eligible voters. People who can't be contacted are supposed to be automatically removed from the list of eligible voters per the NMB rules.

Jim

 

[Kev3188]

If they counted, the union didn't do it's job. Employees on the list of eligible voters who have a "Changes in status" - which includes death - can be challenged and removed from the list of eligible voters. People who can't be contacted are supposed to be automatically removed from the list of eligible voters per the NMB rules.

Jim

Jim--

The AFA filed over 100 objections during the last election, all of which the Van De Water led NMB refused to investigate. I'm almost positive this was one of them.

Either way, it speaks to the lengths DL (or any carrier, really) will go to to "pad" the eligible voter numbers.

Yet another reason to change the rule to only have votes actually cast count. Unless someone has made great strides in reanimation, I'm pretty sure the deceased aren't able to fill out a ballot.

 

[Kev3188]

... and when Delta starts touting " If you don't want a union, make sure and vote!" don't start yer whining, remember you and your ilk wanted the rule change ! :down:

See Ya' !

There won't be whining. What there will be is a carrier interference complaint filed; I can't think of a more egregious violation.

That said, I *do* hope that turnout for any election is high. A slim victory (either way) with anemic turnout doesn't do anyone any good.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Jim--

The AFA filed over 100 objections during the last election, all of which the Van De Water led NMB refused to investigate. I'm almost positive this was one of them.

It's the investigator that rules on challenges, maintains the eligible voters list and counts the votes. Having "over 100" less people on the eligible voters list wouldn't have changed the results. 1000 less people on the eligible voters list wouldn't have changes the results.

I did leave out one factor - there is a cutoff for changes to the eligible voter list because to do otherwise could result in the election not being held due to the relatively constant changes.

The AFA lost that election by a significant margin. Van De Water didn't subvert the election by dismiss challenges improperly to rig it - it was the permanent staff investigator that handled all facets of the election process. I think part of the perception problem is that you, like 700UW, believe so much in the benefits of being unionized that you find it unbelievable that a group of employees would not vote to be unionized unless foul play were involved. Fortunately or unfortunately, depending on one's viewpoint, there are work places that have good employee-management relations. They may be rare among large corporations, but they do exist.

Jim

 

[BABABOOY]

Jim--

The AFA filed over 100 objections during the last election, all of which the Van De Water led NMB refused to investigate. I'm almost positive this was one of them.

Either way, it speaks to the lengths DL (or any carrier, really) will go to to "pad" the eligible voter numbers.

Yet another reason to change the rule to only have votes actually cast count. Unless someone has made great strides in reanimation, I'm pretty sure the deceased aren't able to fill out a ballot.

The NMB DID investigate and found nothing.
I think this link will also show the Lengths the AFA will go for a Yes vote.
Lots of heresay by the AFA.
For the REAL story read here:

http://www.nmb.gov/representation/deter2008/35n070.pdf

 

[john john]

So please explain the difference between Delta's etch-a-sketch and a written contract that is subject to cuts ,

Ready reserve agents