Pay Raises

[WorldTraveler]

Regarding this pay increase, why is Delta management saying in writing, "We cannot make promises of what pay, benefits, and work rules will be if a union is not voted in." The statement seems very odd.

because it presupposes how DL will compensate its employees, something that cannot happen if a CBA does exist. To say that DL will give its employees a raise if the union is not approved creates real problems if the union is approved for all workers now represented by either IAM or AFA; it makes it almost mandatory that DL either give them the pay raise or explain why they are not willing to give it under a union contract.

DL could also come under charges of manipulating the election by saying what it will pay in the future w/ or w/o a union.

You can draw your own conclusions but DL is offering to increase pay for all non-contract employees, including those that are or will be involved in representation elections.

 

[SkyguyB727]

You can draw your own conclusions but DL is offering to increase pay for all non-contract employees, including those that are or will be involved in representation elections.

The way I'm interpreting it, DL is promising a pay raise in eight months to non-contract employees. However, if the union is not voted in, thereby making all employees non-contract, then that offer of a pay raise may be rescinded.

A lot of promises are being made in writing on a variety of issues. When it comes time to make good on those words, there is a lot of, "Oh, we changed our mind." As my mother used to say, don't count your chickens before they're hatched.

 

[Kev3188]

Regarding this pay increase, why is Delta management saying in writing, "We cannot make promises of what pay, benefits, and work rules will be if a union is not voted in." The statement seems very odd.

Seems odd to me too, but "guaranteeing" a raise if the IAM is voted out falls under Carrier Interference.

The way I'm interpreting it, DL is promising a pay raise in eight months to non-contract employees. However, if the union is not voted in, thereby making all employees non-contract, then that offer of a pay raise may be rescinded.

A lot of promises are being made in writing on a variety of issues. When it comes time to make good on those words, there is a lot of, "Oh, we changed our mind." As my mother used to say, don't count your chickens before they're hatched.

"Commitment," "promises," etc. don't mean much until they're in effect, and even less if not in writing.

October's a long way off; let's see if this bribe is still on the table then...

 

[metopower]

Seems odd to me too, but "guaranteeing" a raise if the IAM is voted out falls under Carrier Interference.



"Commitment," "promises," etc. don't mean much until they're in effect, and even less if not in writing.

October's a long way off; let's see if this bribe is still on the table then...

My observation is that you know NWA history and dealings but Know little of DAL history or dealings. All speculation and little history . Question is how manny of these promises or anouncement have been historically reneged on ? Barring another 911 or economic break down DAL has always lived up to their word. Now if that is wrong tell us more but your speculations are just that . Delta saying that wages are not guaranteed if a union is voted in is just that . If a union is voted in then a contract is negotiated. Results of the negotiation is just that results and if they do not go well then that is what you get. Delta's announcement is just that an announcement ...what it will be.

 

[Harry Callahan]

I don't think there are any "external" ones yet, but if you can access DLNet, you can't miss the announcements; they're everywhere.

I didn't look at other depts. besides ACS, and am not at work, so I can't access some of the tables, but I can say that per the FAQ sheet, below wing agents that are topped out will get a 9.4% increase come October.


Good on DL for finally coming through with what they promised. Now let's hope that they don't retract them shortly thereafter.

I'm glad you all have something to look forward to.

 

[Kev3188]

My observation is that you know NWA history and dealings but Know little of DAL history or dealings. All speculation and little history . Question is how manny of these promises or anouncement have been historically reneged on ?

Has DL not given and then retracted raises for ACS previously? It is my understanding through speaking with PMDL ACS employees that they have.

As noted in my previous post, DL cannot guarantee what they will or won't do depending how an election plays out, as that could be construed as Carrier Interference. That said, there's nothing "guaranteeing" they won't either not implement this proposed raise, or retract it a short time later, either.

 

[metopower]

Has DL not given and then retracted raises for ACS previously? It is my understanding through speaking with PMDL ACS employees that they have.

As noted in my previous post, DL cannot guarantee what they will or won't do depending how an election plays out, as that could be construed as Carrier Interference. That said, there's nothing "guaranteeing" they won't either not implement this proposed raise, or retract it a short time later, either.

Short answer is Yes....and all the rest of the employees would take pay cuts at the same time. NO one was exempted except the pilots and in those cases they usually took paycuts as well.

 

[WoRkInG]

There isn't a union drive for AMT's going on. If there is they must be in stealth mode, because I have not heard the slightest peep of any union talk.

No 'DAL Mech'. No voting in your group. No need to vote for you guys. I'll give it about 2yrs after the ramp votes the union in and the fa's, you guys will be itching for a card. Whatevers left of you guys

 

[SkyguyB727]

Question is how manny of these promises or anouncement have been historically reneged on ? Barring another 911 or economic break down DAL has always lived up to their word. Now if that is wrong tell us more but your speculations are just that . Delta saying that wages are not guaranteed if a union is voted in is just that .

Here is a very good example that has been discussed in other forums. About 16 months ago, Delta stated in writing that in stations with mainline NW and Delta Connection, the mainline NW (now mainline DL) people would take over the entire operation. Quite the opposite is now happening. In at least one of those stations, Delta Connection/Regional Elite is hiring additional staff at a quick pace. Meanwhile the mainline DL headcount is dropping. It gives the appearance of mainline DL being gradually outsourced to Delta Connection/Regional Elite.

In the statement I quoted in a previous post, DL was saying that they could not make guarantees of pay and benefits if a union is not voted in. That's the part that didn't make sense. DL is saying they will give pay raises in eight months to non-contract ACS employees. If the union is not voted in (making all ACS employees non-union), then it is implied that the deal is off the table. At the very least, it's poor wording, because the two statements seem to contradict each other.

 

[metopower]

Here is a very good example that has been discussed in other forums. About 16 months ago, Delta stated in writing that in stations with mainline NW and Delta Connection, the mainline NW (now mainline DL) people would take over the entire operation. Quite the opposite is now happening. In at least one of those stations, Delta Connection/Regional Elite is hiring additional staff at a quick pace. Meanwhile the mainline DL headcount is dropping. It gives the appearance of mainline DL being gradually outsourced to Delta Connection/Regional Elite.

In the statement I quoted in a previous post, DL was saying that they could not make guarantees of pay and benefits if a union is not voted in. That's the part that didn't make sense. DL is saying they will give pay raises in eight months to non-contract ACS employees. If the union is not voted in (making all ACS employees non-union), then it is implied that the deal is off the table. At the very least, it's poor wording, because the two statements seem to contradict each other.

I have no knowledge of what DAL put out to NW people or Who gave that info to them. I only stated what DAL has done to DAL employees as far as pay and benifits. The way it has been done at DAL is tha all employee groups have the same benifits (passes, medical, dental) and that the company as a whole has risen and fallen with the same tide. (time frame)

 

[Kev3188]

I have no knowledge of what DAL put out to NW people or Who gave that info to them.

This was sent out to all NW ACS employees in October of '08. It was written by then SVP Crystal Knotek (Gil West's equivalent).

16+ months later, and we're still waiting. Disconnects like this are why so many people on the NW side are so cynical. We see lots of talk from the CLT, but reality is something quite different.

 

[WorldTraveler]

The entire airline industry has taken away benefits and base pay, particularly in the post 9/11 period. I don't think there is any evidence that DL has taken away any more than any other airlines or that those employees who had union contracts fared any better.

If someone can provide facts that show one way or another, I would be happy to see it.

I don't think arguing about whether someone had their pay/benefits slashed is going to shed any light on whether a union is needed at DL - which is clearly the question that people are getting at in this discussion...

 

[bagboy]

"I have no knowledge of what DAL put out to NW people or Who gave that info to them."

One great airline I thought. Delta gave all of us this information. It was post on their website and they continue to drag their feet. Why?

 

[southwind]

No 'DAL Mech'. No voting in your group. No need to vote for you guys. I'll give it about 2yrs after the ramp votes the union in and the fa's, you guys will be itching for a card. Whatevers left of you guys

Nah...............we'll just get a raise every time you do...............minus union dues, if there are any of you left, by that time!

 

[tech2101]

Nah...............we'll just get a raise every time you do...............

Do you have that in writing?