FA30, you are really smart and know all the answers, but some of us who have been in and around the industry since the late 40s have seen this show before, and we know how it turns out.
I know a little bit about some stuff and I know alot about other stuff but there is much I nothing about. I would never be so arrogant to think I have all the answers. This is not the first contract SWA has negotiated with this or any other union. It is certainly not the first one that has devolved into a virtual shouting match. But ya know what. In times past when the ink on the ratification letter was dry, the parties involved got on with their lives and SWA went back to the business of making money. Call me a cock-eyed optimist but something tells me this latest go-round still has a better than average chance of turning out just like all the others. I guess we'll just have to wait and see.
The more things change, the more they remain the same. Nobody has ever figured out how to completely eliminate the human element of greed.
Past history is not always the best predictor of future performance. History was against SWA from day one, yet we are. If this all boils down to sheer greed, which is a characteriaztion you are I are simply going to have agree to disagree on, then this issue best be settled once and for all time now. Because I gotta tell ya, the flight attendant group does not have to market cornered on that particular deadly sin. Ramp agents can get greedy, so can provisioners, and ticket agents and any one of the 10s of thousands of other union members at Southwest. Once this union has been put back in their place, eventually another will rear it's head, then another and another and another.
Hope your union is happy. You have ruined Parker.
There is plenty of blame to go around for the presumptive downfall of Jim Parker. Jim Parker effectively ruined himself when he stooped to the level of the union rank and file and leadership who started slinging mud. He always, ALWAYS, had the choice and the power to simply keep his mouth shut and let fools look fools but he decided to return evil for evil. He has noone to blame for that but himself. I put my job on the line when I authorized the union to step to the table. Jim did the same thing. Messy business we're in.
You boys and girls can put a notch on your belt or nail his scalp to the wall of union headquarters, whatever it is you do.
I don't know about boys and girls. I myself am a grown man. Charming image but nevertheless I suspect one way or anothe Jim will be just fine. Don't forget, much of the company was behind Jim, to them he is now a martyr and martyrs often go on to become saints.
You talk a lot about having taken it in the shorts during the last negotiation several years back.
No I don't. You must be confusing me with another member of this forum. I was in Ground Ops when the last contract was negotiated.
The truth is Herb caved in to you then, too, what's what a lot of folks thought then and it is exactly what a lot of folks think will happen now.
On what specific issues did Herb cave to the membership in the last negotiations? I am still in the process of educating myself on past negotiations and accurate information is hard to come by on the net. I would appreciate your perspective.
You say you don't worry about anyone's tummy ache. I will agree with you there. You don't care much about anyone other than yourself and "what has the company done for me lately."
That is a grossly unfair characterization. I have repeatedly stated that I an open to a review of the specifics of how the union proposal will financially damage Southwest Airlines and I remain willing to do so.
I'm ready to look at the numbers, I am ready to look at the facts but in the absence of those facts, I am unwilling to blindly sit down, shut up and let those who know better decide what is best for me. I doubt that is how you lead your life, I would hope you would respect my right to do likewise.
No layoffs, no furloughs, no missed paydays after Sept 11th doesn;t mean squat to you.
Southwest did not keep me or anyone else on the payroll after 9/11 out of charity or compassion. The economics did not require layoffs, it is as simple as that. 52 consecutive profitable quarters. First grade math will tell you that even at the depths of the post 9/11 slump SWA was STILL MAKING MONEY. For the umpteenth time. Someone, anyone show me the facts of this unions raises taking away SWA's ability to stay competitive and I'm ready to listen.
Greed, pure and simple. From a previous e mail and a lot of your postings, I had some respect for you. No longer. You and your "meeeeeeeeeee" attitude totally disgust me.
I stand by my assertion that you and I simply have different concepts of when the threshold into greed has been crossed and I suspect that will never change. If you re-read my posts with an objective eye I think you will find an absence "give me mine and the rest be damned".
All I have ever said is that I have decided under what circumstances I am willing to do this job for this company. I have never said others should be paid less so I can be paid more. I have never said that ticket prices should be raised so I can be paid more. All I have said, in so many posts in so many ways is that I would like the company for which I have worked so hard for all these years to simply consider giving me a contract that rewards that hard work and if it is not fiscally possible to tell me why not in plain english. That is all I have ever said. But if that is the embodiment of greed and disgust then so be it. I am prepared to wear that moniker.
Bottom line - Parker is the first casualty and I am sure you all are slapping high fives.
No, not really. The bulk of the messages on SWA flight attendant boards are still expressing shock over the fact that Jim stepped down in the first place. No high-fives, no "Ding-Dong the Witch is Dead". More than anything just a sense of "Okay, What next?"
We will see how the contract turns out but the gut feel is Herb will cave in. The immediate result is negligible but the long term result doesn't look good.
My confidence is that Herb will do what is right for Southwest.
The thing that should concern WN fans, though, is when you have a fan as loyal and defender as adamant as I have been.....and an employee expresses no concern at all when I talk about going over to the competition. It's one thing when a Southwest detractor says he or she is going over to the enemy. (as Herb told a long term whiner and complainer threatening to take his business elsewhere..."we'll miss you." It's something completely different when an ally, supporter, and long term WN fanatic talks about riding an airline he absolutely detests because he hates to see the bloodshed at his favorite company and watch the employees destroy it.
I would think true loyalty to SWA would compel you to stand by her if this truly is her hour of need. However, if it simply too painful for you to continue to give Southwest your business. I understand that. I want you to fly Southwest. I would be my pleasure to serve you.
And with that...like KC said..."I'm out." I've gone at this from every possible angle for months now. I've said my peace. In the end, I've got a life to lead and more and more of it seems to be taken up lately with "who said what about whom" on these forums and I think for me at least that needs to change. I've enjoyed the discourse, it's nice to see there is still intelligent "conversation" and debate to be had in this world. Time to move on. Travel Safely.
SWAFA30
