Parker Steps Aside! Kelleher Once Again!

[orangeman]

Subject: Jim Parker stepping aside!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


"This just in...The DAL msg. to the field tonight, Jim Parker announced that
the F/A negotiations have become to "personal" and he is stepping aside as lead
negotiator for the company......Herb is stepping in...Before everyone gets
too excited, PLEASE remember, Herb is also a business man, Southwest is his
airline...Enough said. Maybe we will be able to get a contract..Time will
tell.......Details will be coming!"




To All, The last 3 contracts were "substandard", Let's see if this is any different!

Chris (Orangeman)

 

[SWAFA30]

I will reserve judgement on whether swapping Herb for Jim is good bad or indifferent. The announcement is barely 12 hours old. For now, color me "cautiously optimistic".

But that's not really what I want to talk about. I want to take a moment and do something that I suspect more than a few of my co-workers will be hesitant to do. What's that? Give Jim Parker Credit. I don't care who you are it takes a great deal of humility to put your personal feelings aside and "take one for the team". Jim does not strike me as the kinda guy that is easily bullied and this has to be a bitter pill to swallow. Jim's stock just went way up in my book. I have said more than once on this board that the high road was there waiting for someone to take it.

I say to Jim Parker in all sincerity... Bravo. Thank You for being the bigger man.

Has there been a press release? I'll be interested to see how the stock reacts to this news.

 

[ELP_WN_Psgr]

Never mind.

 

[skyflyr69]

is Wild Turkey and cigars going to be at the next negotiatiing meeting!!!

 

[WNrforlife]

Hallelujah - Herb will definitely be able to fix this one - He should have been handling negotiations from the start.

 

[SWAFA30]

The jury is still out on what impact Herb coming to the table will have. I think we will have a better sense of how things will proceed after the first negotiating session takes place. Jim has been chief negotiator for years but conventional wisdom is that he has always been following Herb's orders. Both sides are still far apart and Herb is likely no less likely to budge than Jim. The difference is that Herb brings a trust relationship to the table that Jim never enjoyed with this membership.
Miles to go yet but the road just got a bit smoother.

 

[ELP_WN_Psgr]

I had to edit my morning post because I was aggravated. I am still less than amused, but perhaps I won't sound so inflammatory.

Bad thing. very very very bad thing.

The best thing that can happen is Herb goes in, makes the same or ever-so-slightly-better offer to FAs, they put it to a vote, and it passes. This doesn't totally emasculate Parker but it does allow Kelleher to bask in the limelight and be adored by the public for a while, and that is one of his real strengths.

The worst thing that can happen is that Herb will go in, and roll over for the FAs and give in to them, and Parker as an airline CEO is finished, kaput.

The golden goose will be on life support in 10, maybe 15 years, but what the heck do the Southwest FAs care? FULL PAY TO THE LAST DAY!!!"

SWA FA 30 is right, the company has changed. But the problem is not that management has changed. The problem is employee groups have changed. Employee groups are more concerned with their union than their company.

The people who built Southwest...and I really mean "built" it......with 3 planes and no money and Big Bad Braniff doing everything legally and illegally possible to run the company out of business......are generally sick to their stomachs over this latest escapade by the FAs.

As for me, I'm with KC. Bye bye stock. What's America West's phone number?

 

[SWAFA30]

I had to edit my morning post because I was aggravated. I am still less than amused, but perhaps I won't sound so inflammatory.

Thank You for showing some restraint. Frankly, it is the only thing separating this board from the screaming match that is the US Airways board.

Bad thing. very very very bad thing.

Assuming The Amazing Kreskin is not in the room, none of us has the "gift" of foresight. The very best we can do is make educated guesses. At this point there is little or nothing to lose by at least waiting to see how the first negotiating session goes.

The best thing that can happen is Herb goes in, makes the same or ever-so-slightly-better offer to FAs, they put it to a vote, and it passes. This doesn't totally emasculate Parker but it does allow Kelleher to bask in the limelight and be adored by the public for a while, and that is one of his real strengths.

Unless Jim's departure was part of some sort of secret backroom deal whereby...Jim steps aside and Thom McDaniel capitulates...an identical offer is unlikely to pass a vote. But, I am still in shock that Herb is taking the reins so at this point anything is possible.

The worst thing that can happen is that Herb will go in, and roll over for the FAs and give in to them, and Parker as an airline CEO is finished, kaput.

The problem is that everyone observing this shindig has a differing view of what "rolling over" is. For instance currently a 15 year top, 1400 stock options, duty rigs that are sorta like the pilots', zero ground time and zero initial training pay are on the table from the company. If Herb offers a 13 year top out, 2500 stock options, pilot rigs, a bump in per diem during ground time and a stipend payable upon graduation from initial training.... in exchange for an increased duty day or other productivity enhancements from the flight attendants has he rolled over? Both sides have been busy bickering over who said what to which reporter over the past year there has been no time for actual bargaining. But I don't see any "rolling over" taking place. There is no way in Hell the membership will Tar and Feather Herb the with the same brush they used on Jim. Even the most embittered union hardliner would have to muster up alot of moxy to accuse the legend that is Herb Kelleher of killing the SWA culture. Herb is the very essence of SWA culture. The public campaign may or may not continue but for the time being, the days of pinning the blame on a single man are over. In the public relations war the balance of power has shifted in a major way. Advantage: Herb.


The golden goose will be on life support in 10, maybe 15 years, but what the heck do the Southwest FAs care? FULL PAY TO THE LAST DAY!!!"

We have said alot of stuff to alot of people both publicly and privately, but I have never heard anyone invoke that battle cry. I know I haven't. At the risk of repeating myself....Too late for that. I still can't help but get the impression that the company's ability to actually afford a contract the membership finds acceptable is getting bogged down in anger over the agressiveness of the campaign and preconceived notion that anything over a set amount is simply too much money to spend on flight attendant labor regardless of the ability to pay or the goose's ability to lay eggs.


SWA FA 30 is right, the company has changed. But the problem is not that management has changed. The problem is employee groups have changed. Employee groups are more concerned with their union than their company.

For the most part that is correct. But the evolution has not come about because the rank and file via their unions colluded to gang up on Southwest and get while the gettin was good. The reality is that Southwest has simply become a victim of it's own success. The company has simply gotten too big to foster the same sense of community and culture that has been the standard for so many years. The effort is still put forth....A senior executive still comes and speaks to every flight attendant class. In the old days it was always Herb or Colleen and the class had 45 students. Today it is more likely to be Tammye Walker-Jones or whoever can squeeze the meet and greet into their schedule and the class has 175 students. I used to have gifts mailed to me from SWA all the time. Birthday Cards, Company Anniversary Cards, Christmas Cards. When Don't Sweat The Small Stuff, Who Moved My Cheese, and Nuts were published, copies were mailed to the homes of the entire company. That kind of thing just doesn't happen around here anymore. But I remember when it did. Many of my junior co-workers don't. They were not here when we were struggling to establish ourselves in the market and had not yet become the 800lb gorilla in the industry. They don't know anything about the battle against Shuttle By United on the East Coast or Continental Lite or MetroJet. They don't share a passion for Southwest's rich history because by and large, they don't know much Southwest history period. To them this really is just another company. Not for lack of trying on the Company's part but espeically over the past few years...we have been too busy trying to stay profitable to foster culture. That is no ones fault, it just is. The flip side of the junior membership is the senior membership. They have been here for years. Negotiated contract, after contract, after contract. It is assumed each time negotiations are commenced that this contract will be better than the one before. That is simply the nature of collective bargaining even in the most harmonious of cases. Eventually, there was going to come a point where in the company's opinon the contract has reached maturity but how do you get the union...any union that is used to getting more and more, contract over contract to simply turn on a dime and not ask for the pot to be sweetened.This is the kind of growing pain any maturing, unionized carrier is going to experience sooner or later. If it were not this union now, it would be another later.

The people who built Southwest...and I really mean "built" it......with 3 planes and no money and Big Bad Braniff doing everything legally and illegally possible to run the company out of business......are generally sick to their stomachs over this latest escapade by the FAs.

I'm not terribly worried about anyone's tummyache. Nausea is fleeting. This too shall pass. After all If they can survive Braniff, American, and Texas International, they can't possibly be afraid of TWU local 556. If they've been with Herb since day one they know he loves this airline more than life itself and he will protect it at all cost. If Jim was not going to be held hostage by an unreasonable union, neither is Herb. If they are indeed sick to their collective stomachs...Herb stepping to the plate is a big bottle of Maalox. Herb locked the Mechanics out. He'll lock the flight attendants out. He'll lock out whoever he has to to protect his brainchild. I just don't think we've quite reached that point yet. Time will soon tell though. The Southwest house is indeed beautifully, and sturdily built by brave and strong carpenters... but now with age comes maintainence and maintenance is often expensive. Our founders deserve thanks and respect for putting Southwest on the map, just like we the employees...all employees...no matter what capacity we serve in.. deserve respect for coming to work and busting our collective butts to keep Southwest on the map.

As for me, I'm with KC. Bye bye stock.

You gotta do what's right for you and yours. Godspeed to you both.

What's America West's phone number?

1-800-235-9292

 

[mweiss]

After all If they can survive Braniff, American, and Texas International, they can't possibly be afraid of TWU local 556.

Fighting that which is without is far less dangerous than fighting that which is within.

 

[KCFlyer]

I had to edit my morning post because I was aggravated. I am still less than amused, but perhaps I won't sound so inflammatory.

Aw shucks...and I thought you were referencing my "Emily Litella" post in another thread.

 

[ELP_WN_Psgr]

FA30, you are really smart and know all the answers, but some of us who have been in and around the industry since the late 40s have seen this show before, and we know how it turns out.

The more things change, the more they remain the same. Nobody has ever figured out how to completely eliminate the human element of greed.

Hope your union is happy. You have ruined Parker. You boys and girls can put a notch on your belt or nail his scalp to the wall of union headquarters, whatever it is you do.

You talk a lot about having taken it in the shorts during the last negotiation several years back. The truth is Herb caved in to you then, too, what's what a lot of folks thought then and it is exactly what a lot of folks think will happen now.

You say you don't worry about anyone's tummy ache. I will agree with you there. You don't care much about anyone other than yourself and "what has the company done for me lately." No layoffs, no furloughs, no missed paydays after Sept 11th doesn;t mean squat to you. Greed, pure and simple. From a previous e mail and a lot of your postings, I had some respect for you. No longer. You and your "meeeeeeeeeee" attitude totally disgust me.

Bottom line - Parker is the first casualty and I am sure you all are slapping high fives. We will see how the contract turns out but the gut feel is Herb will cave in. The immediate result is negligible but the long term result doesn't look good.

The thing that should concern WN fans, though, is when you have a fan as loyal and defender as adamant as I have been.....and an employee expresses no concern at all when I talk about going over to the competition. It's one thing when a Southwest detractor says he or she is going over to the enemy. (as Herb told a long term whiner and complainer threatening to take his business elsewhere..."we'll miss you." It's something completely different when an ally, supporter, and long term WN fanatic talks about riding an airline he absolutely detests because he hates to see the bloodshed at his favorite company and watch the employees destroy it.

 

[ELP_WN_Psgr]

Oh, and FA30....for someone who has been around as long as you have....you ought to quit listening to the revisionist history. Herb never locked the mechanics out. Herb had absolutely nothing to do with the management and running of the airline when that took place.

Putnam was the Pres/CEO then and he reluctantly did the lockout deal at the urging of every other officer.

Herb's dabbling with the actual operations didn;t begin until the late late 70s/early 80s. For at least the first 8 1/2 yrs or so about all he did was lawyer.

 

[mweiss]

Yup. I've seen this movie before and I remember the ending, too. The good news, as a consumer, is that the key WN lessons have been learned and propogated before now. Had they not been, it's quite possible that the airline industry of 1988 would have been perpetuated ad infinitum, because nobody else would have gotten enough strength together to effectively counter the legacy carriers' networks.

If that had happened, Alfred Kahn and Elizabeth Bailey would still feel that dereg was an abject failure. (Actually, I don't know if Alfred Kahn has changed his opinion yet.)

 

[hp_fa]

I suspect that Herb replacing Parker at the negotiations was not a decision made in a vacuum. With the mess (especially at the top) at US, the potential DL bankruptcy, the UA extended stay in bankruptcy and the disquiet among the WN FA's, I believe that the company wants to discontinue warfare and find a solution so customer service perceptions are not (further) weakend.

WN puts it flight crews in unique situations with the number of legs they typically fly per day. The thought that you could replace the current FA workforce with a very short safety course was laughable. Who would want some employee at McDonalds who decided free travel sounded good to be a FA after 7-8 days of reduced training. Think of the customer service issues and the loss of experience issues. It was time to acknowledge that fact and stop using it as a threat over the FA workforce.

When management gets the message that solely using a battering ram as a negotiation tool is ineffective, we will all be a lot better off. Some stragegically placed honey will do wonders.

 

[Boeingguy]

Two posts copied from another forum:

1.

This is a brilliant move on the part of the company. There's no way Thom can demonize Herb like he did Parker. The other employees and his own will abandon him. This move is calculated to put the idea of closure in the minds of the FA's and that translates into yes votes in the bank. It wouldn't surprise me if it weren't scripted months ago.
Thom's smart move right now would be to ask to continue with Parker because he is going to get steamrolled by Herb.

The FA's are going to flock to whatever Herb presents. A small minority are going to claim that it is a worse deal than that already on the table but they are going to be drown out by the masses.

Granted they were only three, but our FA's in the van tonight had one strong concensus. "Now we can get this over with." They see this a quick resolution which subliminally has them voting yes in their minds before they've even seen anything. Exactly what the company intended all along. Parker's job is to play the Ghandi role of losing a battle to win the war, and he will be the one with the last laugh.



2.

Herb will sweeten the offer in some ostensibly significant manner while pulling something else out of the package. Thom should be prepared to "take this or take the street" because there aren't anymore cards for the company to play. IMHO, Thom had also better plan on making the call in the near term, because Herb won't dance with him long.

Thom's been in pretty safe territory until now, not much chance the company would declare an impasse. I'd say he was treading on very unstable ground from here out.

I think there is a greater chance that Thom will be replaced if an impasse is declared.

At the end of the 30 day cooling off period, a strike isn't automatic and an effective strike is far from guaranteed. There's a lot of single parent/two earner family/old school LUV FAs who aren't going to go the last mile, no matter what they've said up to this point. I should add that ala Continental, the company can dangle the hook of improved seniority to all who cross the line. That's going to be a big temptation to those junior FAs who have the feeling that the senior folks were screwing them all these years and it's payback time. Many will consider having the additional seniority to no longer commute to another base as too good of a deal to pass up.

What is automatic is that the company can impose its last offer. Sans strike, and in the case of job actions by individuals after that, the normal discipline procedures would be followed.

For SWA, the end of the issue may well be in sight.