Outsourcing The Airbus

[700UW]

The POR and bankruptcy laws prevent the renegotiation would have to get court and creditor approval to reopen and there is no incentive for the company to open it.

And the only way the ibt can get an election is to solicit cards not by just because the two carrier merged.

 

[AIRWOMAN]

The POR and bankruptcy laws prevent the renegotiation would have to get court and creditor approval to reopen and there is no incentive for the company to open it.

And the only way the ibt can get an election is to solicit cards not by just because the two carrier merged.

Can you be more specific? What laws? Do you speak for the company when you say there is no incentive? I would think that would have to come from the union higher ups and from what I see and read, they aren't even talking to each other so..........the employee/union member is pretty well left out.

And please clarify..............what would be the basis of an election if the required number of cards are solicited?? What would the choices be? What would the members be voting on??

 

[700UW]

The POR was approved by the court and creditors and has to be adhered too. I don't know the specific part of the bankruptcy code but the bankruptcy attornies informed us of that.

The company has no incentive to renegotiate the contract.

And you would vote between the IAM and ibt and if 50%+1 of all eligble members don't vote you will be decertified.

 

[700UW]

No collective bargaining agreement, employees become employees at will and the company can change wages, benefits, workrules and working condtions to anything the company wants to do and change it anytime they please.

 

[NeedForSpeed]

What exactly would happen if there was a Decertification?

WOW!!!! Nice lead-in, Piney.. :down: :down: You knew the answer to that!!! seems to me there are alot of people running scared B)

the company can change wages, benefits, workrules and working condtions to anything the company wants to do and change it anytime they please.

Haven't they done that already? B) :blink: OH!!! I forgot to mention the CBA...oops...sorry.

 

[320tech]

There are 850 M&R at HP and 5,300 at US. In order for the NMB to declare an election with a-cards is that the HP mechs are 35% of the combined group.

You don't renegotiate a contract under the RLA until the amendable date and you certainly can't modify a CBA once the company emerges from bankruptcy as it is part of the POR.

US/East management was alway pennywise and pound-foolish.

and mr 70 what makes you think we won't get the 35%, we've recieved alot already and they keep rolling in, also your numbers at awa are just what is IBT now, under your IAM contract that would bring alot more of our employees into the contract that are non union right now and they are signing teamster cards ( moc, planers, tech writers, training, and so on!)

 

[AIRWOMAN]

The POR was approved by the court and creditors and has to be adhered too. I don't know the specific part of the bankruptcy code but the bankruptcy attornies informed us of that.

The company has no incentive to renegotiate the contract.

And you would vote between the IAM and ibt and if 50%+1 of all eligble members don't vote you will be decertified.

Again I ask.........do you speak for the company when you say there is no incentive to renogiate? And as I stated earlier, the union heads are NOT setting a very good example of negotiating in my opinion. I don't see as they are even talking to each other and I would think that they would.....for the good of ALL union members.......whether they are IBT, IAM, AMFA, or whatever..........the union brotherhood.

And as previous posters have questioned........why do you or anyone else, think that less than 50% + 1 would NOT vote???? That would be like cutting your own throat.......just like not trying to come to a mutual agreement between members in the new, combined airline. We didn't have a vote on the merger so we need to come together and make the best of it. Strength is in numbers...........and if the employees of this new airline are not standing together, that makes the employees all that much weaker.

Geez........doesn't anyone think that maybe, just maybe, all the employees........from DP down to the newest hire.........want this to succeed??

I just think that before you state laws, you should have the back up info. And just because a bankruptcy attorney told you so........doesn't necessarily mean it's set in concrete. There are options but EVERYONE has to be open minded enough and inquisitive enough to ask questions and see what the options are and present those options. You won't know if you don't ask.

 

[700UW]

MOC, planners, tech docs, QA are all under the Mechanic and Related IAM CBA AT US and the Maintenance Training Specialists have their own agreement.

It just happened at Allegheny/Piedmont merger with the stock clerks, there was a vote between the IAM and ibt and they did not get the 50%+1 and now they decertified with no CBA.

 

[AIRWOMAN]

MOC, planners, tech docs, QA are all under the Mechanic and Related IAM CBA AT US and the Maintenance Training Specialists have their own agreement.

It just happened at Allegheny/Piedmont merger with the stock clerks, there was a vote between the IAM and ibt and they did not get the 50%+1 and now they decertified with no CBA.

Sounds like the union reps and members as well, weren't doing their jobs......or maybe they didn't want a union. Are they sorry that they are no longer under a CBA?

I think most are aware of what groups fall under the IAM contract. What about the current non union employees (they are that way by choice) and their possible desire to remain non union? Doesn't seem to be a choice for them so..........that's pretty sad. I wouldn't think it would be a very morale building deal for those that would rather not be represented but have no choice.

 

[calibrator]

So Calibrator, have you EVER pondered if Infants have as much fun in infancy as adults do in adultery????

Just remember Calibrator, Christ was far more concerned

Just for You Bob, with my LOVE------

She was walking in the garden one day
When a snake slithered round her feet
Follow me right over to this tree
And I'll give you something good to eat
I don't know, are you sure? I don't think it is right
It doesn't matter just open your mouth and take a tasty bite
She said to him I think it's a sin but boy does it look right
He said to her just take my word
And I promise that you'll see the light


I Know you already sold your soul but this is for your friends Bob...

http://demonical.com/sellyoursoul.htm

 

[6 o'clock]

h34r: This talk is all rediculous...Union's voice holds no clout with management because it holds no clout with membership. They are just as corrupt as the politicians we complain about....Union leadership has sold it's soul to the devil or 'the next free trip to 'San-Fran'or 'Palm Springs' or wherever the quaint little soul that finds his/her self in a position of leadership is graced to go 'live it up' at the cost of his/her constituent's dues. Let's face facts folks, the Union, whichever brand you choose is 'PASSE'. If you don't believe it, ask junior members of AWA, US or God forbid, Mid- Atlantic...soon the top 10% of the employees that are senior, the ones the unions have been taking care of while fleecing the other 90% will retire or die. Big Brown, (UPS and they are not in the aviation business) is the only company I know that has a great union....Ask Northwest, Old PAN-AM, Us East Junior Pilots (18 years seniority is junior...wow) or the AWA junior guys in 6 months if they feel represented....10 years from now all the old !@#&*&@ will be gone and that is the last of the troups that any of the union contingency from their ivory towers ever served or appealed to....we junior people with only 20 to 25 years seniority have seen and heard it all... enough. Good luck to those trying to garner support and change history in the very near future for support of the union...I personally will not be listening...We should all put our $50 a month into a highly speculative equity fund....I promise it would be more productive than the present union....and to think...in my younger years, the union and it's leadership was held
in high esteem by my fellow workers and most importantly by me!!! :huh:










G

 

[NeedForSpeed]

Actually I wasn't 100% sure as the RLA changes certain things. But if upon Decertification couldn't the workers then organize as ACTWU or some union?

That's Amalgamated Clothing & Textile Workers Union, who interestingly enough is the Bargaining agent for the machine builders at Xerox.

Just out of curiosity what was the percentage that voted on the last IAM contract since it seems like 50% + 1 is paramount.

Cute....Very cute, Piney. But your "spin" does not amuse me or probably many other posters. 700 could more than likely answer your last question though. You know, the man with all of the facts that will not get in your way...

GOOD DAY!!

 

[700UW]

Once you decertify you cant vote for another union for one year under the NMB rules.

 

[calibrator]

[/i]

This should be read by "every union worshiper" who believes that unions are a symbol of benevolence when they’re actually like France, burning from within. From a man who has been there and back his comments carry weight. They are very accurate and hard to swallow for these poor souls. The remaining small pockets of union fanaticism is like a mental disorder to be look upon in pity. The world has changed and these individuals have gone mad because of it.

 

[gonzo]

6 o'clock,
I have only one question. Are you still in the union?