calibrator
Veteran
- Jan 30, 2004
- 558
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You and 700 should go somewhere in private and exchanges big hugs, you two are of the same mold___AS in a growth of minute fungi.
Outsourcing The Airbus
- Thread starter justaumechanic
- Start date
OP
justaumechanic
Veteran
- Dec 15, 2003
- 578
- 0
- Thread Starter
- Thread starter
- #48
The company is going to go out and buy equipment so they can re-start
some of the back shops because the Finance department is not saying the
work that was vendored out can be done cheaper in-house..
Did I miss something?
You have an airline that has no back shop capability at all, you merge or buy into an airline that had tons of back shop capability but got rid of it so
it could find a merger partner and now all of a sudden the combined company
wants to buy equipment that it just sold off so it can re-start work it got
rid of so it could merge in the first place!!
I think I forgot my drink of IAM Koolaid this morning or something.
You have got to be kidding right?
US Airways had one of the best Wheel and Brake shops in the industry, top of the line APU shop.. Both did excellent work.. Huge Slide shop, plenty of Avionics capability.. All of it is gone.. The couldn't wait to get rid of it
and the people that did the job..
Now you lead people to believe that all of a sudden Doug and friends are excited about bringing back work to the airline..
Why? The investors are not interested in any of that.. They want to get rid of as much as possible.. Lean, they want it lean.. Its not nearly as lean as they would like it..
Right now US Airways is hovering around 102 employee's per aircraft.. The LCC's (the real ones not the wanna be's) Southwest 79 per aircraft, JetBlue 82 per aircraft and AirTran 80 per aircraft are way out in front.
Southwest who does some base/heavy work has no back shop support. None. JetBlue has no back shop support other than the LiveTV division and AirTran has no back shop support..
What makes you think that the company is remotely interested in starting all of this up all over again? Some obscure note from some Union member who was in some meeting where they said "We used to do that before" and then Frank stands up and says "Yeah but they can do that and oh we are building a 10 bay Airbus hangar in PIT, Doug says its a good idea and the county is willing to pay for it all"..
I think you need to get an MRI done on your brain.
The company full intends to get its head count down close to the level of the real LCC's.. The only way they can do that is to cut in the maintenance department.. That's all that is left.. The new US Airways does not want facilities all over the country.. To hard to control. PIT is the prime location for disposal..
To think otherwise is foolish..
And I lived thru both the PSA merger and the PI merger and there was no transition agreement.. Yes we did do the mirror image program (sucked) but a formal agreement between the union of both companies, didn't happen.. Try again. They were absorbed into the exisiting US Airways CBA's without question. Do your best to tell me otherwise.. I was there.. Were you? I doubt it.
And it was Lakefield that saved the S check, not the IAM.. The IAM lost..
There is no dignity in the contract that exists today. None. The sacrifice of all the benefits, pay and work rules to save the S check was not worth it. The union was only interested in Dues.. Nothing else..
The huge pay cut taken by the IAM members never reflected in the Dues.. The dues never was cut 25% like the pay scales.. Why is that? A stand up union would have cut the Dues.. Not the IAM.. They have to keep the IAM Corporate Jet flying (which by the way is maintained in Mexico with Non union labor)
some of the back shops because the Finance department is not saying the
work that was vendored out can be done cheaper in-house..
Did I miss something?
You have an airline that has no back shop capability at all, you merge or buy into an airline that had tons of back shop capability but got rid of it so
it could find a merger partner and now all of a sudden the combined company
wants to buy equipment that it just sold off so it can re-start work it got
rid of so it could merge in the first place!!
I think I forgot my drink of IAM Koolaid this morning or something.
You have got to be kidding right?
US Airways had one of the best Wheel and Brake shops in the industry, top of the line APU shop.. Both did excellent work.. Huge Slide shop, plenty of Avionics capability.. All of it is gone.. The couldn't wait to get rid of it
and the people that did the job..
Now you lead people to believe that all of a sudden Doug and friends are excited about bringing back work to the airline..
Why? The investors are not interested in any of that.. They want to get rid of as much as possible.. Lean, they want it lean.. Its not nearly as lean as they would like it..
Right now US Airways is hovering around 102 employee's per aircraft.. The LCC's (the real ones not the wanna be's) Southwest 79 per aircraft, JetBlue 82 per aircraft and AirTran 80 per aircraft are way out in front.
Southwest who does some base/heavy work has no back shop support. None. JetBlue has no back shop support other than the LiveTV division and AirTran has no back shop support..
What makes you think that the company is remotely interested in starting all of this up all over again? Some obscure note from some Union member who was in some meeting where they said "We used to do that before" and then Frank stands up and says "Yeah but they can do that and oh we are building a 10 bay Airbus hangar in PIT, Doug says its a good idea and the county is willing to pay for it all"..
I think you need to get an MRI done on your brain.
The company full intends to get its head count down close to the level of the real LCC's.. The only way they can do that is to cut in the maintenance department.. That's all that is left.. The new US Airways does not want facilities all over the country.. To hard to control. PIT is the prime location for disposal..
To think otherwise is foolish..
And I lived thru both the PSA merger and the PI merger and there was no transition agreement.. Yes we did do the mirror image program (sucked) but a formal agreement between the union of both companies, didn't happen.. Try again. They were absorbed into the exisiting US Airways CBA's without question. Do your best to tell me otherwise.. I was there.. Were you? I doubt it.
And it was Lakefield that saved the S check, not the IAM.. The IAM lost..
There is no dignity in the contract that exists today. None. The sacrifice of all the benefits, pay and work rules to save the S check was not worth it. The union was only interested in Dues.. Nothing else..
The huge pay cut taken by the IAM members never reflected in the Dues.. The dues never was cut 25% like the pay scales.. Why is that? A stand up union would have cut the Dues.. Not the IAM.. They have to keep the IAM Corporate Jet flying (which by the way is maintained in Mexico with Non union labor)
- Banned
- #49
The company realized they made mistakes in all the outsourcing, and this talk has been taking place at TEMPE at headquarters. And you will be the first to eat your words when you see some work being brought back in-house when the representation issue is resolved.
Dues were cut at my local, dues are calculated once a year in August and effective in January.
Since you were not at Tempe nor at the meeting in CLT this week I would not expect you to know it. Fry is suppose to put a bulletin out on it.
And yes I was there during the PSA and PI mergers and there was an intergration agreement negotiated and there was no need to negotiate changes to the CBA since PI and PS did their overhaul in-house as did US.
Dues were cut at my local, dues are calculated once a year in August and effective in January.
Since you were not at Tempe nor at the meeting in CLT this week I would not expect you to know it. Fry is suppose to put a bulletin out on it.
And yes I was there during the PSA and PI mergers and there was an intergration agreement negotiated and there was no need to negotiate changes to the CBA since PI and PS did their overhaul in-house as did US.
cltbay1homie
Advanced
BoeingBoy
Veteran
- Nov 9, 2003
- 16,512
- 5,865
- Banned
- #51
I'll just throw this into the discussion before I head out to work....
The ACE agreement
It gives ACTS dibs on all outsourced heavy maintenance, which included all HP's and part of US's at the time it was signed by both HP & US.
It also effectively sets a minimum dollar amount per year for that service. I don't have time to look it up now, but it's somewhere in the $250 - $280 million range.
Just food for thought.....
Jim
The ACE agreement
It gives ACTS dibs on all outsourced heavy maintenance, which included all HP's and part of US's at the time it was signed by both HP & US.
It also effectively sets a minimum dollar amount per year for that service. I don't have time to look it up now, but it's somewhere in the $250 - $280 million range.
Just food for thought.....
Jim
AIRWOMAN
Veteran
- Oct 20, 2005
- 3,440
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True.........Air Canada is an investor in the merged company but I don't believe that there was a guarantee........just the ability to bid and prove themselves as others are able to do........that's up to interpretation and subject to interpretation as well.........could be seen both ways.
Reference the IAM contract Pg. 72: "In addition, a standing committee of Union and Management Members will be established no later than January 1, 2003, with the responsibility of exploring and implementing measures to achieve cost savings by insourcing of work, improving the efficiency of operations and/or by any other methods that create cost savings for US Airways."
Exploring.........just like Franke promised to look into bringing back C-check at AWA.......huge loop hole.
Achieve cost savings..........how can it be cost effective to have to buy new equipment, for one..........based on the recent auctions of US Airways equipment in PIT and CLT?????
With language like that, in either contract or any contract for that matter, it doesn't look promising.
AIRWOMAN
Veteran
- Oct 20, 2005
- 3,440
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Some facilities? Some equipment? From what I've read on these forum pages, some may not be enough but hopefully it will keep/bring back in house work. I am still puzzled about the recent auctions of equipment in PIT and CLT.
And if the discussions are going on as you say, why isn't everyone aware of this? You said it's Al Hemenway and the IAM. Is the IBT involved? If not, why not?? I don't remember one union or the other being declared the "winner."
And to shoot off the path a bit..........."winner" Who is, who should that be? I'm thinking the company, the employees.........not a "winning" union. It's a union supposed to be for the employees/members. All this bantering back and forth about the unions.......I think that all this energy could be better used to unite as fellow employees of the airline and if the employees can come together, the union issues will too. It's not like any of us had a choice in the matter.......the merger. We do have the choice to band together since we were all thrown into the same playpen. We all have to make the best of it and help each other out.......give and take all the way around. You never know when who you may need to lean on in the future.......I sure would hate to see this go on and on and on. And I would hate to "need" a fellow employee and find out that there is still bad feelings underneath.
So with that all said, I pose a question..........are the higher ups at IAM and IBT talking? If not, why not? And if not, how could anyone, employee or management or CEO or fellow union members or current non union members, who may be forced into becoming a union member, ever think this will work out? It's like one parent pitting a child against the other parent.
- Banned
- #55
The company still has the majority of the back shops facilities still leased or owned by US.
The company is negotiating with the IAM as the IAM will be the represtatives of the merger airline.
The ibt is not involved as the IAM and the company both know the NMB once it declares single carrier status the IAM wins on sheer numbers.
The company auctioned of this equipment before US/West finance department and maintenance east/west reviewed the work that was outsourced.
And ask the ibt supporters for your answer as they are the ones soliciting cards from US Airways Mechanic and Related employees?
The company is negotiating with the IAM as the IAM will be the represtatives of the merger airline.
The ibt is not involved as the IAM and the company both know the NMB once it declares single carrier status the IAM wins on sheer numbers.
The company auctioned of this equipment before US/West finance department and maintenance east/west reviewed the work that was outsourced.
And ask the ibt supporters for your answer as they are the ones soliciting cards from US Airways Mechanic and Related employees?
320tech
Senior
Keep on dreaming there mr70, we are getting cards in every day. for you to think that its an automatic thing well just keep thinking that and we'll see in the end. If the IAM would ever talk to thier people they would see how many of them are ready for a positive change. we in PHX saw 1st hand how the IAM operates under pressure "they run and hide" they wouldn't even answer the questions asked to them and ended the talks!
AIRWOMAN
Veteran
- Oct 20, 2005
- 3,440
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First of all, I wasn't posing the question to you specifically 700UW. I was posing the question and any other questions I may have asked to anyone that has the answers.........true, correct, factual answers. I don't want to hear any of the other garbage, personally.
Now these questions are directed right to you......... How can you say that the IAM will "win" on sheer numbers? Do you know something that everyone else doesn't??
As far as the IBT supporters soliciting cards, I am well aware of that. I would think that BOTH unions and employees on BOTH sides would welcome the challenge to the contracts........IAM and IBT. Neither is perfect, there seem to be good and bad in both contracts. Seems to me that this would be the opportune time for ALL US Airways employees to come together and take the best........those are the sheer numbers you would want!! Don't you think??
And why would the company auction off equipment BEFORE the review was accomplished?? Sounds like someone within the company screwed the proverbial pooch on that one. And I'm not sure if you are aware or not, but this auction took place late in September.....at least 4 months after the announcement of the merger. I hope that someone takes the reins and gets this under control.........for all our sakes.
Now these questions are directed right to you......... How can you say that the IAM will "win" on sheer numbers? Do you know something that everyone else doesn't??
As far as the IBT supporters soliciting cards, I am well aware of that. I would think that BOTH unions and employees on BOTH sides would welcome the challenge to the contracts........IAM and IBT. Neither is perfect, there seem to be good and bad in both contracts. Seems to me that this would be the opportune time for ALL US Airways employees to come together and take the best........those are the sheer numbers you would want!! Don't you think??
And why would the company auction off equipment BEFORE the review was accomplished?? Sounds like someone within the company screwed the proverbial pooch on that one. And I'm not sure if you are aware or not, but this auction took place late in September.....at least 4 months after the announcement of the merger. I hope that someone takes the reins and gets this under control.........for all our sakes.
- Banned
- #58
There are 850 M&R at HP and 5,300 at US. In order for the NMB to declare an election with a-cards is that the HP mechs are 35% of the combined group.
You don't renegotiate a contract under the RLA until the amendable date and you certainly can't modify a CBA once the company emerges from bankruptcy as it is part of the POR.
US/East management was alway pennywise and pound-foolish.
You don't renegotiate a contract under the RLA until the amendable date and you certainly can't modify a CBA once the company emerges from bankruptcy as it is part of the POR.
US/East management was alway pennywise and pound-foolish.
NeedForSpeed
Senior
- Jan 6, 2005
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AIRWOMAN
Veteran
- Oct 20, 2005
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Someone please correct me if I am in error.........but I thought that if 35% of the combined members signed cards, then a vote for representation would be held.
700UW is making it sound like there is no reason for the cards since the sheer numbers between the two unions is heavily towards the IAM. If that is correct, why are cards being signed and why is there so much discussion about the card signing.........if it all really doesn't matter any way?
Can you educate me at to what it in the RLA prohibits renegotiation of a contract when a carrier emerges from bankruptcy and/or is merged??
