One more reason for seniority-based system

[Mr Furlough]

Right.... So when you and others speak about the utter he11 you'll inflict on the first west Capt "junior" to you who you are "forced" to fly with, just how is that "leaving it at home?"

Busdrvr,

I don't know what you got from my post to suggest that I would. First of all, our line guys here in the east have been through one hell of a lot. Yet in my first hand experience-the negativity in the cockpit is put aside in the name of safety. They have performed perfectly-no accidents, no incidents, and no violations that I am aware of. Our foqa data supports the level of professionalism that is being practiced.

Go back and read what I said, as I also commented on the great job being done in the west as well.

Throw stones all you want, but should we fly together leave it alone, or you'll find yourself alone-the minute you play that card.

Best,

Geeez...kids today!!!

 

[ussnark]

QUOTE(ussnark @ Jun 1 2007, 07:56 PM)

"Have a good day, tadpole."

Well...it must at least be admitted that the "spermatazoa." does have a far longer "tail", by any proportional measurement, than does any "tadpole"...although that's merely a layman's observation

Yeah, I guess looking at your palm full of ejaculate after a lonely night drinking most any spermatazoa might seem to have a longer tail than any imagined tadpole, especially through the fog of your drunken following your leader, but then that is pure speculation on my part.

 

[avion]

hey i laughed at your post. pretty funny.. i guess you are into jerking off.. lol

 

[EastUS]

Yeah, I guess looking at your palm full of ejaculate after a lonely night drinking most any spermatazoa might seem to have a longer tail than any imagined tadpole, especially through the fog of your drunken following your leader, but then that is pure speculation on my part.

Actually; That's not "pure speculation" it's merely mindless adolescent rambling, which only serves to prove that you didn't actually read the posting that joke came from. You had made an insult via the "tadpole" to Bear. He'd responded with the "Spermatazoa" bit. Had you actually read this in context...you would have seen that I was actually defending your position in a hopefully comical vein suited to the previous BS the two of you had posted.

Don't fret over that ever happening again as it's now clear that you've some unsavory personal issues that I'm not the least bit interested in associating with.

 

[ussnark]

Actually; That's not "pure speculation" it's merely mindless adolescent rambling, which only serves to prove that you didn't actually read the posting that joke came from. You had made an insult via the "tadpole" to Bear. He'd responded with the "Spermatazoa" bit. Had you actually read this in context...you would have seen that I was actually defending your position in a hopefully comical vein suited to the previous BS the two of you had posted.

Don't fret over that ever happening again as it's now clear that you've some unsavory personal issues that I'm not the least bit interested in associating with.

Who cares? Old news and my personal issues do not involve palms. But, if the shoe fits for you, then wear it.

You should know by now that comical does not fit anyone here. Retirement is not anything anyone jokes about on this property. American vets have killed for way less.

 

[Busdrvr]

Busdrvr,

I don't know what you got from my post to suggest that I would. First of all, our line guys here in the east have been through one hell of a lot. Yet in my first hand experience-the negativity in the cockpit is put aside in the name of safety. They have performed perfectly-no accidents, no incidents, and no violations that I am aware of. Our foqa data supports the level of professionalism that is being practiced.

Go back and read what I said, as I also commented on the great job being done in the west as well.

Throw stones all you want, but should we fly together leave it alone, or you'll find yourself alone-the minute you play that card.

Best,

Geeez...kids today!!!

Mr F,
just for clarification, I don't fly for U or AWA. I'm not furloughed either. I'm a UAL FO on a LOA (hopefully forever...). I used to jump on U quite frequently and have always been treated very well. You guys are/were a class act and I always considered you to be one of the most competant pilot groups around.

While you may not have suggested that you would treat an AWA Capt poorly, others have. While you may think you can treat the guy like a lepper on the ground and the pre-brief and still operate safely, I beg to differ.

That's just one mans opinion, and if being under 50 with less than 10K hours makes me a "kid" so be it!!

 

[markkus757]

You know what Mr furlough, I'm not the only passenger taking his money elsewhere. What you seem to forget is that nobody made you stay. I was smart enough to leave the airline side of the business. I wonder what your excuse was. You can come on here and whine about how their stealing from you and guess what, until you realize that this is a new company, you will remain in the dark. And I thought pilots were supposed to be smart professionals. :down:

 

[Mr Furlough]

You know what Mr furlough, I'm not the only passenger taking his money elsewhere. What you seem to forget is that nobody made you stay. I was smart enough to leave the airline side of the business. I wonder what your excuse was. You can come on here and whine about how their stealing from you and guess what, until you realize that this is a new company, you will remain in the dark. And I thought pilots were supposed to be smart professionals. :down:

"I'm not the only passenger taking his money elsewhere."

Good, than just go and stf-up.

"I was smart enough to leave the airline side of the business. I wonder what your excuse was."

Oh look at Mr. fancy pants! You read a few of my post and sum up my choices. Good luck with your new endeavor, all the best-fly southwest.

"until you realize that this is a new company, you will remain in the dark"

Your reasons for leaving this business, and mine for staying are amongst the thousands of choices that occur every day in this biz. But as much as airlines change, they stay the same.

For the record, I was out of aviation for over 4 years. I found an Ok job, quickly worked my way up, and did just fine on the outside. Some would say, better than most. But your implied success, and mine, really have nothing to do with the subject matter, do they?

As to the level of intelligence I possess in this whole thing, the jury is still out!!! But I will say that I am a guy who is secure enough to know that I don't need to judge a person's intelligence upon what profession they choose.

Not to mention the type that slithers around looking for that cheap seat (boy, you must be pulling down the bucks)-at the determent to the entire industry he boast that was once was his own.

Who's in the dark?

 

[nostradamus]

You know what Mr furlough, I'm not the only passenger taking his money elsewhere. What you seem to forget is that nobody made you stay. I was smart enough to leave the airline side of the business. I wonder what your excuse was. You can come on here and whine about how their stealing from you and guess what, until you realize that this is a new company, you will remain in the dark. And I thought pilots were supposed to be smart professionals. :down:

I have a few questions I would like to ask you. We will talk tommorrow.

 

[Mr Furlough]

Mr F,
just for clarification, I don't fly for U or AWA. I'm not furloughed either. I'm a UAL FO on a LOA (hopefully forever...). I used to jump on U quite frequently and have always been treated very well. You guys are/were a class act and I always considered you to be one of the most competant pilot groups around.

While you may not have suggested that you would treat an AWA Capt poorly, others have. While you may think you can treat the guy like a lepper on the ground and the pre-brief and still operate safely, I beg to differ.

That's just one mans opinion, and if being under 50 with less than 10K hours makes me a "kid" so be it!!

Outside of work, yea, I would want to let my feelings be known. But at work, not a chance. In the balance of safety, I'm biting my lip. As for the rest of those involved, all I can say is that they have performed beautifully under the most distressing circumstances. And I would put my entire family on any fight out here in the east without loosing a nano-second of sleep. As for the west, I simply cannot point a finger at any side of their operation without something positive to say. They too have performed beautifully, and I would also put my family on their flights without a second thought.

In my mind, the argument isn't about the east pilot against the west pilot. Although I do have serious reservations about putting the less experienced pilot in command over the more experienced pilot. Simply doesn't make good sense to me, and I expect, the flying public would rather have the more experienced one in command.

But that aside, I have no problem with just about any pilot from any airline. This whole thing has to be resolved in a practical, sensible manner. It should have been done correctly in the first place, and quit obviously, it was grossly mishandled. Now we have to fix it. When you consider all of the careers, families, and communities in the balance-than Nicolau's opinions mean absolutely nothing.

 

[ClueByFour]

Although I do have serious reservations about putting the less experienced pilot in command over the more experienced pilot. Simply doesn't make good sense to me, and I expect, the flying public would rather have the more experienced one in command.

I'd submit that there is a minimum standard of ability (eg, passing all applicable training, sim, and checkrides) that every LCC pilot has to meet. Experience, however is not a substitute for sound judgment.

I'd rather fly with the West guy who had a realistic view of the arbitration than any east guy who really thought that DOH was going to happen or that a furloughed guy would jump an active HP Captain. Neither is indicative of sound judgment.

Or putting the thing about stress in the WAR reports. Sure inspires confidence in all the fire breathing, too angry to safely fly East pilots.

 

[EastUS]

I'd rather fly with the West guy who had a realistic view of the arbitration than any east guy who really thought that DOH was going to happen or that a furloughed guy would jump an active HP Captain. Neither is indicative of sound judgment.

It seems that there IS hope for some agreement Clueless...We'd also rather prefer that you "fly with the West guy"...exclusively

"Experience, however is not a substitute for sound judgment" Ummm...I must then naturally suppose that "experience", by it's very definition, isn't at least somewhat indicative of at least some slight degree of "sound judgement". I suppose that huge numbers of successful flight hours can be logged purely on luck.

You appear intent upon furthering your personal agenda at the wholesale expense of any rational thought. I believe that you could more accurately offer up: "Anyone who disagrees with ME and my I want MINE position has no sound judgement!!"

 

[Mr Furlough]

I'd submit that there is a minimum standard of ability (eg, passing all applicable training, sim, and checkrides) that every LCC pilot has to meet. Experience, however is not a substitute for sound judgment.

I'd rather fly with the West guy who had a realistic view of the arbitration than any east guy who really thought that DOH was going to happen or that a furloughed guy would jump an active HP Captain. Neither is indicative of sound judgment.

Or putting the thing about stress in the WAR reports. Sure inspires confidence in all the fire breathing, too angry to safely fly East pilots.

No offense offered ClueByFour. Simply stating my opinion. "Sound Judgment" is not confined by regionalism. And as for the minimum standards-now you're really grasping for straws.

I stand by what I said, there is no substitute for experience. You are advancing an agenda, so in that mode you can craft an argument anyway you wish. But the facts are the facts. And you, I, and all the rest of us have a responsibility to operate in the safest way we can. Placing a much more inexperienced pilot in command over a more experienced one by practice (no matter what the excuse is)-is a really dumb thing to do.

 

[SkyRat]

Placing a much more inexperienced pilot in command over a more experienced one by practice (no matter what the excuse is)-is a really dumb thing to do.

Let's see if I get this straight Mr. Furlough...

Hmmm, I am a junior Captain on the West, have been flying for 20 years Total. Ok, I have to admit that some Easties have been flying for what? 50-60-70 years?

Now, I have flown heavies all over the world, over 15K hours TT, Check Airmen for previous airline, blah blah blah...

But decided to come to AWA 10 years ago because I loved what I've had heard about the place, even thought it was not that good. Had ZERO respect for UAL, did NOT give a #### to work for SkyNazis, did NOT care to do 6-8 legs a day ala SW, etc.

I am as experienced and frigging sharp or MORE than any Eastie that used to be a Captain, and has been an FO for years now. I just made a different choice. And because of that I AM going to be senior to any 1987+ EASTIE!

Sorry dude but it's all about the choices that we make in LIFE!

GL

 

[EastUS]

But decided to come to AWA 10 years ago because I loved what I've had heard about the place, even thought it was not that good. Had ZERO respect for UAL, did NOT give a #### to work for SkyNazis, did NOT care to do 6-8 legs a day ala SW, etc.

"I am as experienced and frigging sharp or MORE than any Eastie that used to be a Captain,.."
Your modesty does you credit sir, but I do have full respect for your 20 years of experience...WHY don't your comrades out there have any similar inclinations?

"I loved what I've had heard about the place, even thought it was not that good."
Ummm.... "it was not that good", and yet you "chose" AWA over SW/UAL/American?...Do they drug test at all there?

"And because of that I AM going to be senior to any 1987+ EASTIE!"
Good Luck

"Sorry dude but it's all about the choices that we make in LIFE!"
I wish such was always the case...I'd still be flying airplanes with Smiles on them.