Official UA/US Possible Merger Thread-Discuss here

[767jetz]

Turbulent times

ANALYSIS | Unions ready to shoot down United merger plan with US Airways

May 8, 2008

...

Because without the unions on board, a merger-obsessed United surely won't get very far along in any deal it wishes to make happen.

Exactly!

 

[luvthe9]

Exactly!

I agree, also US (pilots) don't want anything to to with this merge, let's hope it does not happen.

 

[FWAAA]

I agree, also US (pilots) don't want anything to to with this merge, let's hope it does not happen.

Perhaps, but there's a vocal, long-time proponent of Project Minnow around here who seems to want it. B)

 

[JetMonkey]

I agree, also US (pilots) don't want anything to to with this merge, let's hope it does not happen.

Don't you mean east US pilots?

 

[EastUS]

Don't you mean east US pilots?

I suppose so. Perhaps it's because the 1700 or so out west see only Nic gleaming as again a possibility, while the east people have seen the movie "Merger Mania" already...a few times even, and the plot and script hardly improve with repetition. It "might" seem that the local folks aren't none-too-thrilled as well, nor can I blame them in the slightest.

"Just how unhappy are they? Very, apparently. In a detailed statement issued Wednesday, Steve Wallach, chairman of the United Master Executive Council of the Air Line Pilots Association, said his union has "serious concerns that the highly touted financial benefits to be derived from such a merger [with US Airways] are unlikely to be achieved because those benefits are based on assumptions that have no basis in reality." Wallach went on to say "a merger with US Airways should be a last resort and not a first choice for United."

Ah well...if it happens..it happens, and we'll all presumably do the best that we can with things..as always.

 

[prechilill]

I suppose so. Perhaps it's because the 1700 or so out west see only Nic gleaming as again a possibility

If you think Nic is a "possibility" only with a UAL merger, implying it is dead otherwise, I have a nice merger attorney for you in Potomac named Katz- you know, the one who represented you the last time through a merger against the America West pilots. You see, Parker isn't touching the list, with or without United. You can believe otherwise, but a little something called Allegheny Mohawk disagrees with your version of "fairness" because mergers are not meant for the purposes you propose: a monopoly on all the upgrades the other group brings or putting a nice furlough-pillow down for your own guys again at the expense of the other guys. You can call it fair, but the rest of the world would call it greed. You have earned nothing more than what you bring to the merger- your concept of self entitlement conflicts with the harmony of our profession.

 

[EastUS]

If you think Nic is a "possibility" only with a UAL merger, implying it is dead otherwise, I have a nice merger attorney for you in Potomac named Katz- you know, the one who represented you the last time through a merger against the America West pilots. You see, Parker isn't touching the list, with or without United. You can believe otherwise, but a little something called Allegheny Mohawk disagrees with your version of "fairness" because mergers are not meant for the purposes you propose: a monopoly on all the upgrades the other group brings or putting a nice furlough-pillow down for your own guys again at the expense of the other guys. You can call it fair, but the rest of the world would call it greed. You have earned nothing more than what you bring to the merger- your concept of self entitlement conflicts with the harmony of our profession.

It's been my experience, through three airlines and as many mergers that, ever since deregulation...there's been precious little "harmony" in "our profession", nor have I the least fantasy that a merger with UA would magically produce any. Perhaps, within your own vast "experience"..you've found reasons to think otherwise..although..from where?....one can only guess. As usual; I'll properly leave what "the rest of the world" thinks to those who deem themselves qualified to speak on it's collective behalf.

 

[dariencc]

It's been my experience, through three airlines and as many mergers that, ever since deregulation...there's been precious little "harmony" in "our profession", nor have I the least fantasy that a merger with UA would magically produce any. Perhaps, within your own vast "experience"..you've found reasons to think otherwise..although..from where?....one can only guess.

From where? OK, I'll guess. Australia, perhaps?

 

[Richard]

Folks,

Do NOT make this thread about the NIC award or any other US labor issue--it's about the potential merger from the UA side.

There are appropriate threads for NIC in the US boards.

Thank you.

 

[boxer]

_United, US Airways fly closer to merger -- -- chicagotribune.com_
(http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/chi-sun-united-tilton-mergermay11,0,1669926.stor
y)

_http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/chi-sun-united-tilton-mergermay11,0,16
69926.story_
(http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/chi-sun-united-tilton-mergermay11,0,1669926.story)

United, US Airways fly closer to merger
Combined carrier is expected to be based in Chicago, but top leaders would
come from smaller airline
By Julie Johnsson
Tribune reporter
May 11, 2008


United Airlines is closing in on a merger with US Airways, sources say, after
being spurned by Continental Airlines and Delta Air Lines.

The combined carrier would be headquartered in Chicago, United's base and
home to its largest airport hub, said a person familiar with the negotiations.

But United executives aren't expected to run the carrier, which would be the
nation's second largest, slightly smaller than the proposed Delta-Northwest
Airlines tie-up announced last month. Top duties are likely to be assumed by
US Airways Chief Executive Doug Parker and its president, Scott Kirby, said
people close to the Phoenix-based carrier.

Others caution that the management team's makeup and a host of other issues
have yet to be sorted out and that an announcement isn't imminent.

The carriers have been down this path before. United and US Airways explored
a merger in 1995 and went so far as announcing a deal in 2000, only to
shelve it 14 months later amid a slowing economy and opposition from labor and
regulatory officials.

As in 2000, United and US Airways are expected to shed assets in the
Washington, D.C., market, where overlapping operations are likeliest to raise
antitrust concerns. United is the dominant carrier at Washington Dulles
International Airport; US Airways is the largest at capacity-constrained Reagan National
Airport.

AirTran, JetBlue and Virgin America officials all say they would be in the
market for landing rights and gates that the carriers would divest at Reagan
National and other East Coast strongholds if a merger were consummated.

"There are some places we're keeping a very close eye on," said David Cush,
president and CEO of San Francisco-based Virgin America, an upstart airline
aimed at business travelers that plans to rapidly expand its cross-country
routes. "If a deal is proposed, we'll get our wish list together."

United and other carriers are contemplating industry-changing consolidation
amid a credit crisis, lower consumer spending and record-high fuel prices. In
addition to the Delta-Northwest merger, American Airlines is negotiating an
alliance with Continental that would enable the carriers to sell tickets on
each other's flights.

All airlines are struggling to cope with the sharp industry downturn. But
the pressure is especially keen for United CEO Glenn Tilton, whose airline's
performance badly trailed its peers during the first quarter and who hasn't
been able to deliver a deal to shareholders, despite being the industry's most
vocal proponent of consolidation.

What's more, United is projected to suffer the deepest 2008 losses in the
industry, an estimated $10.71 per share, at the current oil prices, according
to a research report published Friday by analyst Kevin Crissey of UBS
Investment Research.

The airline with the second-largest projected loss? US Airways, which
Crissey estimates will lose $10.16 per share. Parker also has advocated
consolidation and last year failed in an attempted hostile buyout of Delta.

Combining with US Airways would provide United with a $5.3 billion cash
cushion, potential cost-saving synergies of at least $1.5 billion and the means
for even more drastic cuts if needed, like parking the two carriers' 111-plane
fleet of aging Boeing 737-300 jets, sources said.

Sources expect any merger to include capital from strategic investors, which
could include global alliance partners or a Middle East-based sovereign
fund. While United planned to borrow to fund its $12 billion buyout of US Airways
in 2000, this time executives want a deal that would strengthen its balance
sheet.

But some question whether those gains would offset a fuel bill that would
rise as much as $6 billion in 2008 for the combined carriers, or demands by
unions at United and US Airways to raise their wages, the lowest among major
airlines, up to the industry average.

Jake Brace, United Airlines' executive vice president and chief financial
officer, said mergers will work only if they are accompanied by a major
revamping of airline operations.

"Consolidation by itself is not the solution. The industry will need to do
many things to create business plans that work in this environment," said
Brace, who declined to comment on any talk of a merger. US Airways also would not
comment.

Even so, many longtime aviation observers are skeptical that the
megacarriers formed by combining Delta with Northwest and United with US Airways would
be stronger and more efficient than the carriers operating as stand-alone
companies.

"There are [few] easy answers for an airline in United's situation, but a
merger just isn't one of them," said Hubert Horan, a Phoenix-based aviation
consultant.

Horan thinks that a United-US Airways linkup may find it more difficult to
navigate the industry's troublesome landscape. He thinks the costs of
combining computers, reservation systems and fleets could wipe out much of the
potential cost savings. There's also the possibility of potential disruptions that
could be triggered by trying to integrate United's pilots with their
balkanized counterparts at US Airways.

"The last thing you need, especially heading into a recession and with fuel
volatility, is to spend $1 billion of cash reserves that are already
dwindling … on what would be the most hellaciously complex merger in aviation
history," Horan said. "It's like dropping a gasoline-soaked bomb on six union
groups."

[email protected]_ (mailto:[email protected])

 

[sagurao]

Here's the persistent question that I have:

If the UAL list is merged with the Nic list, then isn't UAL's date of hire effectively extinguished with regard to any future consolidation? UAL can't go back to DOH any more than AAA, because to do so would re-order the list internally.

In other words, merge with NIC and bye-bye DOH... unless somebody can describe how that could be recovered by UAL pilots merged with a NIC'd US.

not according to the brain trust at usapa they want a doh list without reordering their own east list for DOH.

 

[nostradamus]

"But, according to The Tribune, United executives aren’t expected to run the carrier, which would be the nation’s second largest. Instead, top duties are likely to be assumed by US Airways Chief Executive Doug Parker and its president, Scott Kirby, according to the report."

Credit rearrangements, management shuffle, interesting times. Employees of both airlines will enjoy this, well at least 60 percent of them will, they will still be employed. Many United and Us Airways employees will lose their jobs over this one.

United and US Airways Said to Be Closer to a Deal

 

[HPMGR1]

"But, according to The Tribune, United executives aren’t expected to run the carrier, which would be the nation’s second largest. Instead, top duties are likely to be assumed by US Airways Chief Executive Doug Parker and its president, Scott Kirby, according to the report."

Credit rearrangements, management shuffle, interesting times. Employees of both airlines will enjoy this, well at least 60 percent of them will, they will still be employed. Many United and Us Airways employees will lose their jobs over this one.

United and US Airways Said to Be Closer to a Deal

Perhaps, but more than likely, many less than if left as stand alone carriers.

 

[nostradamus]

Perhaps, but more than likely, many less than if left as stand alone carriers.

Part of article regarding the Continental Airlines, turning down a dance with United Airlines;;

"Continental did not spell out what risks it saw, though its relative financial strength probably meant it had less to gain from a marriage than United did. United lost $537 million in the first quarter and said it would cut 1,100 jobs, noted Robert Mann, president of R.W. Mann and Co. in New York. It may be that Continental decided United was a bad bet, he said."



Continental Airlines ran out of the meeting with United. United Airlines is in serious trouble. United Airlines has to merge right now, US Airways does not. During these transactions management makes everyone think they will not be the one to get the boot.

Doug Parker and Scott Kirby do not know how to manage an airline, they are looking to make the big score on a transaction. Employees at United should fight this to the end. Your threat of the lesser of two evils, is part of a greedy management and stockholder rant.

There is trouble in the industry and something has to give. Enjoy time with your families. If you are sick you are sick, take as much time off as you can. Error on the side of your health.

Employees should not go the extra mile in this scenario, take what you can while you can. Just do your job by the book, do not go the extra mile.

Continental Airlines benefits from rejecting United merger, analysts say

 

[Fly]

United Airlines has to merge right now, US Airways does not.

!


Right :down: