Official: AMR Bankrupt

[eolesen]

I don't believe I've ever read a more pompous, narcissistic, and condescending post on this forum...

I have. And I've probably written a few, too.

I think the response was adequate. Pilots will lose some, but be mostly secure.

Mechanics might not lose wages, but the union will no doubt lose members. That's always been the issue.


With regard to the S1110 rejections, I'll agree that the MD80's have a huge target symbol on them.

I suspect the bigger rejection target may be over at Eagle -- they have around 100 of the 135/140's last time I checked, plus a few older 145's that are parked.

Get those off the books, and Eagle starts to look more attractive for purchase...

 

[Duke787]

Not really Hopeful. As I've posted regarding the information easily available on the internet, the BK Judge will have to weigh the costs of a mass exodus of pilots as a function of the ability of the company to operate. "Mass exodus" is probably an overstatement, but there are plenty jobs available worldwide for the pilots and increasing rapidly with each Boeing/Airbus delivery. While the salaries of many are crap, many pay equal and sometimes better than AA today does for a B777 Captain.

That is why pilots come back to AA on recall after years of being laid off. Get over yourself.........

 

[Duke787]

Before the pilots are solely blamed for BK...........



Horton said, however, that there was no single factor that led to the bankruptcy filing. He said the company needed to cut costs in view of the weak global economy and high, volatile fuel prices. The average price of jet fuel has risen more than 50 percent in the past five years.


http://old.news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20111129/ap_on_bi_ge/us_american_airlines_bankruptcy

 

[RDU Jetblast]

I don't believe I've ever read a more pompous, narcissistic, and condescending post on this forum...

And naive as well !!!!

When we were sitting in a meeting room doing our unemployment paperwork after Midway went chapter 7, we were discussing our own next chapters. When my turn to speak came up, I told them I wasn't too worried. I am a mechanic and an avionics technician. My skills are transferrable to other industries.

The guy next to me said, " Well, I am a pilot and MY skills are NOT transferable. I need to get back in the air to support my lifestyle!

I never collected on that first unemployment check because I was employed three weeks later by a local medical device company. Three years later, I was still at the company making double my previous pay when I ran into that pilot working in my local Home Depot.

I think he had to re-evaluate his lifestyle and re-arrange his priorities.

Today I am in pharma making five times the money. So to anyone facing their next chapters, don't short change yourselves. And don't let others convince you into believing you have nothing to look forward too.

 

[Mach85ER]

That is why pilots come back to AA on recall after years of being laid off. Get over yourself.........

Only 1 out of 10 are accepting the recall offer to return to American as a pilot. some classes have been short of spots because of last minute cancellations.

What does that tell you?

 

[Mach85ER]

RDU Jetblast,

The main focus of your post that changes can sometimes turn out well in the darkest times should be well takern, including any pilot.

I'll also admit that maybe my message is getting misunderstood by some. I will refute your claim that I am naive about the current situation.

Your Midway pilot story sounds great to the uninformed, but it isn't relevant for today's market. MDW went Chapter 7 in 11/91 during a slide in air travel and furloughs and at least no hiring in the pilot job market for the next several years. MDW also wasn't considered a real high paying job for a pilot, certainly not what the major airlines were paying. There also wasn't the world pilot market that exists today that my post focused on. Most overseas jobs paid 50-60% less than USA pilots jobs. that isn't true today as I've posted and the market isn't getting worse. Believe me when I say I understand the current situation. If I'm ever on an employee bus and hear a Captain crying "poor me" in front of 50 other ground workers, they'll all be standing in line behind me to "educate" him.

 

[Dont call me Shirley]

Time to lighten things up a bit:

http://www.theonion.com/articles/american-airlines-now-charging-fees-to-nonpassenge,2614/

American Airlines Now Charging Fees To Non-Passengers
DECEMBER 1, 2008 | ISSUE 44•49

FORT WORTH, TX—Cash-strapped American Airlines announced a new series of fees this week that will apply to all customers not currently flying, scheduled to fly, or even thinking about flying aboard the commercial carrier.

Enlarge Image

American Airlines has promised never to raise its fees for not printing a boarding pass.

The fees, the latest introduced by American Airlines in a continuing effort to combat its financial woes, will take effect on Monday


I would have thought US Airways would have thought of this first...

 

[Jacobin777]

Its a sad day today in aviation-yet anti-climatic in a way. Fortunately AA has enough cash/resources/etc to come through. I'm doing my part of supporting by flying AA this week.

At least a number of people got their wish to see Arpey out.

I wish everyone here the best.

 

[KILOFINAL]

Are you flying non-rev?

Its a sad day today in aviation-yet anti-climatic in a way. Fortunately AA has enough cash/resources/etc to come through. I'm doing my part of supporting by flying AA this week.

At least a number of people got their wish to see Arpey out.

I wish everyone here the best.

 

[Mach85ER]

Are you flying non-rev?

Hopefully D3.

The price is probably more than available online for a confirmed seat, AA get's more revenue, he'll pick a lightly loaded flight and displace no revenue, and the employee will do the booking for free.

 

[ContUNITEus]

This is the first step that was necessary in order to make AA an attractive merger partner.

As with the case of US Airways, America West told US, not once, but twice, that it needed to lower it's employee costs and business standards to "TRASH-AIRLINE" status in order for them to even think about taking them on as a merger partner. They, US Airways, needed to become as low-class/low-cost as possible for the time being so that they could be compatible with - well, the "trash airlines" still around. As soon as this was accomplished, HP agreed to marry US. The resulting product of this merger, the US Airways of today, became a permanent trash airline itself by stripping out everything for both employees and passengers in order to make them as successful as they are today. If you wanna call that successful. After all, they did have to slightly step back from the ghetto business model. To this date, US is in this so called twilight zone (or shall we call it identity-crisis zone) between "trash-ghetto" and "full-service" airline, not really sure of what model to really follow. AA will have to assimilate to that through this bankruptcy.

In short, US Airways (aka America West) is just a few years away. Doug Parker was never going to allow a merger with a high cost airline.

Mark my words on this.... This is the preparation for a merger with US... like it or not.

 

[Tater Salad]

Perhaps we need to brush up on our Spanish and proper English ladies and gentlemen?


From Business Week:

International Consolidated Airlines Group SA, a U.K.-based joint venture partner with AMR that owns British Airways and Spain's Iberia, said it has “every confidence in the future of American Airlines” and looks forward to working with Horton.

 

[FWAAA]

I feel bad for anyone who recently threw away their money on AMR common stock expecting another 2003-style turnaround.

And I hope that everyone had cashed out their 2003 options prior to this year.

 

[aapitbull]

RDU Jetblast,

The main focus of your post that changes can sometimes turn out well in the darkest times should be well takern, including any pilot.

I'll also admit that maybe my message is getting misunderstood by some. I will refute your claim that I am naive about the current situation.

Your Midway pilot story sounds great to the uninformed, but it isn't relevant for today's market. MDW went Chapter 7 in 11/91 during a slide in air travel and furloughs and at least no hiring in the pilot job market for the next several years. MDW also wasn't considered a real high paying job for a pilot, certainly not what the major airlines were paying. There also wasn't the world pilot market that exists today that my post focused on. Most overseas jobs paid 50-60% less than USA pilots jobs. that isn't true today as I've posted and the market isn't getting worse. Believe me when I say I understand the current situation. If I'm ever on an employee bus and hear a Captain crying "poor me" in front of 50 other ground workers, they'll all be standing in line behind me to "educate" him.

Certainly as a pilot or mechanic we have options that many others do not and should be thankful for those options but now is not the time to debate who is better off in this mess, the truth is alot of people are going to be hurt by this and some of them will be pilots and mechs!!!!

 

[WorldTraveler]

This is the first step that was necessary in order to make AA an attractive merger partner.

As with the case of US Airways, America West told US, not once, but twice, that it needed to lower it's employee costs and business standards to "TRASH-AIRLINE" status in order for them to even think about taking them on as a merger partner. They, US Airways, needed to become as low-class/low-cost as possible for the time being so that they could be compatible with - well, the "trash airlines" still around. As soon as this was accomplished, HP agreed to marry US. The resulting product of this merger, the US Airways of today, became a permanent trash airline itself by stripping out everything for both employees and passengers in order to make them as successful as they are today. If you wanna call that successful. After all, they did have to slightly step back from the ghetto business model. To this date, US is in this so called twilight zone (or shall we call it identity-crisis zone) between "trash-ghetto" and "full-service" airline, not really sure of what model to really follow. AA will have to assimilate to that through this bankruptcy.

In short, US Airways (aka America West) is just a few years away. Doug Parker was never going to allow a merger with a high cost airline.

Mark my words on this.... This is the preparation for a merger with US... like it or not.

I'm continually amazed that the US people who regularly trash US mgmt now expect US will be the savior for another airline and THAT other airline's creditors will want to run their airline.
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To somehow think that LCC with the lowest market capitalization in the US will win a contest for AA's hand when other carriers have multiples more value than LCC - in some cases up to TEN TIMES more value - is nothing short of an absence of reality.
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Further, I have yet to hear a single AA employee say they want to be bought by US.... if AA has to be bought by someone else, the employees can very well influence the outcome....
US' last attempt at buying a bigger airline was thwarted by the vocal objections of DL mgmt and employees - you can bet AA employees would be even more interested in avoiding a long-term relationship with US.... a dozen other airlines could provide better employment outlook for AA employees than US - as well as better returns for the creditors.

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AA has an incredibly valuable franchise, even if they may cut 10-15% of their capacity in the next 6 months as they cut their losses and get rid of aircraft they do not wish to keep long term.
There is a list of airlines as long as your arm that can run AA as good as US could - including AA by itself after its employees endure massive cuts the size of which US employees have endured. If AA employees take cuts as deep as US employees have, AA will be swimming in profits and have absolutely no need of US - and the creditors know that.
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Even if the creditors decide there is more value in selling out after AA is cleaned out than waiting for AA to return to health on its own, the fact is that every one of those other airlines can pull the same financing tricks that Doug Parker can do - and they have much more valuable companies to offer the creditors as collateral as well.
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The only way US could buy AA is with borrowed money. The deciding factor if it comes down to a choice between carriers is who can offer stock in their own company as well. IN a competition for AA vs any other airline, LCC will never have the market value to tilt the contest in its favor.
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You can take THAT to the bank.