Official: AMR Bankrupt

[Flying low]

Well there it is. Is Arpey gone yet?

Yep -- Thomas W. Horton, Chairman, Chief Executive Officer and President of AMR and American Airlines, said, "This was a difficult decision, but it is the necessary and right path for us to take - and take now - to become a more efficient, financially stronger, and competitive airline

 

[PhatSappy]

This was inevitable, I can't imagine that anyone would be surprised. I am wondering if UAL and DAL will start taking market share out of MIA and DFW. I can remember when DAL and UAL went through BK, how posters on the forums would brag about how American was going to buy pieces of them, their routes, etc., and about how OneWorld was an "elite" alliance for non-bankrupt carriers.. Unfortunately, karma has taken its turnl. I hope all AA employees come out of this better. Humble pie is being served!

RT, Thanks for the well - wishes. Hunble Pie is actually a S#1T sandwich, but I would think the AMR mgt believes they will get stronger. That's a fantasy too, because none of them knows how to program an FMC, or troubleshoot anything ON an airplane. Ch. 7 could be the result of their failed "management".

 

[Vortilon]

Well for starters, the following could apply immediately:

- Your 5 weeks planned vacation GONE
- 5 more holidays GONE
- Any hope of a contract for overhaul mechanics GONE
- Slugs in the workplace GONE
- Pension Plan GONE
- Prepaid medical GONE WITHOUT PAYBACK
- Paid Sick Leave account GONE

Dust off your monster.com account, update your resume, get a real JOB. The fantasy is over. h34r:

As sad as it is, as AMTs - this will probably work out better than the TWU negotiating for us. AA AMTs, when ranked in pay and benefits with the rest of the industry are ranked 8th. A bankruptcy judge then has to decide based on industry pay and benefit averages - how much everybody gets. Well, for AMTs at AA - to even get to the middle of the pack, would be better the the company's last offer. Company should have done this 8 years ago. Now, lets get rid of Horton and get Crandall back.

 

[NAPAUS]

Well for starters, the following could apply immediately:

- Your 5 weeks planned vacation GONE
- 5 more holidays GONE
- Any hope of a contract for overhaul mechanics GONE
- Slugs in the workplace GONE
- Pension Plan GONE
- Prepaid medical GONE WITHOUT PAYBACK
- Paid Sick Leave account GONE

Dust off your monster.com account, update your resume, get a real JOB. The fantasy is over. h34r:

Unfortunately this is true. American, welcome to " America "!
I sincerely hope your new contracts survive the madness of Chpt 11.
BESt of luck to all the great employees at AA!!

 

[767one]

Now what? From what I'm seeing on CNBC they are acting as their own DIP financiers which tells me this was their "Plan B" all along.

I'd expect to see either a substantial reduction in S80 lease rates or lease rejections En Masse,and the pension to be shunted off to the PBGC as well a laundry list of other changes.

Well, we've watched other airlines do it, now it's our turn in the barrel.

In BK proceedings USAirways management way overstated how underfunded the pilots pension fund was. The judge gave the company all the time they needed to state their case and I think the pilots got a day or a day and a half to state their side. Bottom line is that the pension fund has been found to be fairly close to 100% funded. that being said with 30yrs. invested in the pilot plan I got about 40% of my already accrued benefit. I hope that your employee groups will talk with other airline employees to be more prepared. I would not delay because events will unfold rapidly. Best of luck to you all.

Regards,


Bob

 

[N288AA]

As sad as it is, as AMTs - this will probably work out better than the TWU negotiating for us. AA AMTs, when ranked in pay and benefits with the rest of the industry are ranked 8th. A bankruptcy judge then has to decide based on industry pay and benefit averages - how much everybody gets. Well, for AMTs at AA - to even get to the middle of the pack, would be better the the company's last offer. Company should have done this 8 years ago. Now, lets get rid of Horton and get Crandall back.

It never works out better like this. I recall the TPA Hanger for US being shutdown without notice. Third shift showed up and were told to get their tools off the property. The lease on the hanger was terminated and given back to the city of TPA.

 

[AAviator]

Are you for real? I would say that the pilot group is going to take it in the shorts the worst.

If the airframes get outsourced is it safe to say mechanic, F/A, gate and fleet jobs go away too?

Unbelieveable

 

[AAviator]

In BK proceedings USAirways management way overstated how underfunded the pilots pension fund was. The judge gave the company all the time they needed to state their case and I think the pilots got a day or a day and a half to state their side. Bottom line is that the pension fund has been found to be fairly close to 100% funded. that being said with 30yrs. invested in the pilot plan I got about 40% of my already accrued benefit. I hope that your employee groups will talk with other airline employees to be more prepared. I would not delay because events will unfold rapidly. Best of luck to you all.

Regards,


Bob

Bob, you are aware AA pilots pension consists of both a defined benefit, as well as a defined contribution? Defined contribution is hard money. Not sure how future payments will wash out. As for the defined benefit, at last required by law report that number was in the neighborhood of 90%.

Granted, yours was pretty ugly with the 100% loss. By structure, ours is very different.

Thanks for wishes....

 

[Keroseneuser]

Best Wishes to you AA folks.

I hope it works out better for you than it did At US. The only ones that seem to not get hosed big time by BK is the MGMT. team that leads the company through BK.

 

[US Oringinal]

Parker (from US) and his financial cronies are salivating right now. Watch out for what come from Tempe. He has a successful track record with the BK courts and a fixation on playing with the 'big boys". Proof that he is in this play was last month when he said he no longer has any interest in a merger in the short term. No one believed that.....

In these proceedings, the employees are nearly powerless..it's completely up to the BK courts and judges....and they are looking for a reorg plan the offers, in their mind, the best chance of long-term survival..and Parker know how to do this...

Hang on..best of luck. Get your plan B ready....

 

[Hopeful]

If the airframes get outsourced is it safe to say mechanic, F/A, gate and fleet jobs go away too?

Unbelieveable

Not at all......But airframes will get outsourced...TO THE NEW SPUN OFF AA OH COMPANY! IN TULE!

 

[Mach85ER]

Are you for real? The farm is under water my friend....You guys risk losing alot of flying to Eagle.....
Fighting in BK court? With a judge whose charge is to get the company operating viably? Appease creditors?

We are all at risks, but I would say that the pilot group is going to take it in the shorts the worst.

Not really Hopeful. As I've posted regarding the information easily available on the internet, the BK Judge will have to weigh the costs of a mass exodus of pilots as a function of the ability of the company to operate. "Mass exodus" is probably an overstatement, but there are plenty jobs available worldwide for the pilots and increasing rapidly with each Boeing/Airbus delivery. While the salaries of many are crap, many pay equal and sometimes better than AA today does for a B777 Captain.

The mechanics are certainly going to lose. The pay comparison that is equal of better worldwide for a pilot is certainly worse for an A&P. Even worse are the pay/benefit comparisons for the thousands of jobs at AA that essentially require a High School Diploma and two weeks or less of training. When I got up and heard the news, I was unfazed at the personal cost to me. Writing this paragraph personally makes me sick thinking about the thousands that do not have my options and are the breadwinners with pay and health insurance.

 

[enough already]

Not really Hopeful. As I've posted regarding the information easily available on the internet, the BK Judge will have to weigh the costs of a mass exodus of pilots as a function of the ability of the company to operate. "Mass exodus" is probably an overstatement, but there are plenty jobs available worldwide for the pilots and increasing rapidly with each Boeing/Airbus delivery. While the salaries of many are crap, many pay equal and sometimes better than AA today does for a B777 Captain.

The mechanics are certainly going to lose. The pay comparison that is equal of better worldwide for a pilot is certainly worse for an A&P. Even worse are the pay/benefit comparisons for the thousands of jobs at AA that essentially require a High School Diploma and two weeks or less of training. When I got up and heard the news, I was unfazed at the personal cost to me. Writing this paragraph personally makes me sick thinking about the thousands that do not have my options and are the breadwinners with pay and health insurance.

I don't believe I've ever read a more pompous, narcissistic, and condescending post on this forum...

 

[WorldTraveler]

Not really Hopeful. As I've posted regarding the information easily available on the internet, the BK Judge will have to weigh the costs of a mass exodus of pilots as a function of the ability of the company to operate. "Mass exodus" is probably an overstatement, but there are plenty jobs available worldwide for the pilots and increasing rapidly with each Boeing/Airbus delivery. While the salaries of many are crap, many pay equal and sometimes better than AA today does for a B777 Captain.

The mechanics are certainly going to lose. The pay comparison that is equal of better worldwide for a pilot is certainly worse for an A&P. Even worse are the pay/benefit comparisons for the thousands of jobs at AA that essentially require a High School Diploma and two weeks or less of training. When I got up and heard the news, I was unfazed at the personal cost to me. Writing this paragraph personally makes me sick thinking about the thousands that do not have my options and are the breadwinners with pay and health insurance.

it would appear that AA might be planning to dramatically cut capacity during bankruptcy... most carriers have to get rid of what doesn't make money as early as possible to ensure they can restructure.... AA also has 60 days to either accept the terms of the aircraft leases or reject them... given that about half of the remaining M80 fleet is leased, the chances are very high they will reject all of the remaining M80 leases... perhaps the leasing companies will allow them to convert some of the newer M80s to 3-5 year leases but the M80s and perhaps a good chunk of the 757 leases will be rejected in BK... how soon they are removed from the fleet will determine how many people AA will need until the new 320/737 orders start arriving.

 

[Mach85ER]

I don't believe I've ever read a more pompous, narcissistic, and condescending post on this forum...

What do you want me to do, sugarcoat the reality for you? My response was to Hopeful claiming the pilots would lose the most. That also seems to be a theme with many at AA that I have run across and I pragmatically responded with the truth. Don't like it? Niether do I. Just about every job in the USA requiring minimal education has been outsourced or beat into the ground regarding pay/benefits, mainly by Wall Street pr@#s that simply dance from making money from manufacturing in Syracuse that was switched to Shanghai. These same pr#$#s expect security and protection for the energy supplies to run their Asian factories and investments to be provided with the blood and lives of the same US high school graduates that they stole their future from. Take a look at the Iraq oilfield and Afghan mining contracts awarded to the Chinese.

Am I clear now?