Official: AMR Bankrupt

[Mach85ER]

just my 2 cents, anybody that can fly a regional jet could also fly a wide body and anybody that works at McDonalds could also be a flight attendant.

Ask around AA how well those flying the regional jets are transitioning to the big jets at AA.


AV1, spare us the "true market value" speech regarding pilot pay compared to the regionals. Even more so the idiotic autopilot relationship. An autopilot is like the spellcheck button at the top of this post. Nice to have, takes alot of work out of the process but deosn't know squat about what it is checking. If you want a medal for working on autopilots, do the CatIII checks on the ground so I don't have to practice autoland with 200 pax to keep the jet current.

The only pilot market value that exists is whether a $100 million dollar jet sits on the ground for the lack of pilot crew. Unfortunately for us, the game has gotten so rigged that we can't use that leverage.

 

[nbmcg01]

Ask around AA how well those flying the regional jets are transitioning to the big jets at AA.


AV1, spare us the "true market value" speech regarding pilot pay compared to the regionals. Even more so the idiotic autopilot relationship. An autopilot is like the spellcheck button at the top of this post. Nice to have, takes alot of work out of the process but deosn't know squat about what it is checking. If you want a medal for working on autopilots, do the CatIII checks on the ground so I don't have to practice autoland with 200 pax to keep the jet current.

The only pilot market value that exists is whether a $100 million dollar jet sits on the ground for the lack of pilot crew. Unfortunately for us, the game has gotten so rigged that we can't use that leverage.

This is a scary time until all of the puzzle pieces are in place. There are ways to negotiate cost neutral or no cost enhancements to offset some concessions. It will be interesting to see how many leave for greener pastures( other airlines starting at the bottom) and how often you will now hear, "The writing was on the wall" "Didn't you see it coming?" "You chose to stay even though your company was in dire financial shape" When the shoe is now on your foot it might cause some to reflect of why many of us stayed at TWA. Not many want to start over, especially when you're at the top of the pay rate, or lose earned benefits, or seniority. Sometimes you just believe it will get better.

 

[Buck]

Not only is the company blaming Labor, now we have Labor blaming each other. Pilots/Mechanics? As a mechanic I need the pilot to fly the aircraft that I repair and the Pilots need the mechanics to keep them in repair. One needs the other. Keep playing into the hands of the company at every turn. Its bad enough as it is.

 

[Mach85ER]

Agreed Buck. AV1's issue is seperate from current events. His Autopilot/pilot pay issue has been going on for years. Apparently those things do everything <_<

 

[Buck]

Agreed Buck. AV1's issue is seperate from current events. His Autopilot/pilot pay issue has been going on for years. Apparently those things do everything <_<

Yes almost everything. Issues of the past between a certain mechanic(s) and a certain pilot(s) have always been around. Pilots write stupid things in the logbook and the mechanics _____________________________(Could a pilot fill in the blank?)

Some at the OH base(s) are not happy with the fact that other than A&P mechanics make the same as they do. The company is going to do what it believes to be the right course of action and the employees will lose.

 

[signals]

Companies always blame labor for their financial woes. They make it sound like the unions are what is causing the company to go belly up. They leave out the many concessions the employees make, only their company's losses. Most executives, like your dozens of vice presidents, make more money than a whole hub of union labor combined. Exaggerated? Maybe but you get the point. Bad management is mostly to blame since a fish starts to smell from the head, as they say where I'm from.

 

[Duke787]

Not only is the company blaming Labor, now we have Labor blaming each other. Pilots/Mechanics? As a mechanic I need the pilot to fly the aircraft that I repair and the Pilots need the mechanics to keep them in repair. One needs the other. Keep playing into the hands of the company at every turn. Its bad enough as it is.

Horton said, however, that there was no single factor that led to the bankruptcy filing. He said the company needed to cut costs in view of the weak global economy and high, volatile fuel prices. The average price of jet fuel has risen more than 50 percent in the past five years.


http://old.news.yaho...ines_bankruptcy

the only people blaming pilots or OH are the mouth breathers who operate on fear/emotion rather then practicality. All three unions, management and the economy are to blame for where we are at.

 

[Airlinelifer]

As sad as it is, as AMTs - this will probably work out better than the TWU negotiating for us. AA AMTs, when ranked in pay and benefits with the rest of the industry are ranked 8th. A bankruptcy judge then has to decide based on industry pay and benefit averages - how much everybody gets. Well, for AMTs at AA - to even get to the middle of the pack, would be better the the company's last offer. Company should have done this 8 years ago. Now, lets get rid of Horton and get Crandall back.

"As sad as it is, as AMTs - this will probably work out better than the TWU negotiating for us."

The TWU will be representing every class and classification it represents in BK court.
Good Luck to all at AA.

 

[TWU informer]

The union representing American Airlines pilots is in discussions with a Wall Street investment bank to gear up for negotiations on a new labor contract during bankruptcy proceedings.

The Allied Pilots Association is in talks with Lazard Ltd. to represent the pilots during AMR Corp.'s bankruptcy case, said APA President Dave Bates and people familiar with the discussions.

The union, which represents more than 10,000 AMR pilots, has ...

What are we TWU members going to get for representation?

James C Little and a lobbyist named Luby ?

 

[paul1]

What are we TWU members going to get for representation?

James C Little and a lobbyist named Luby ?

While we think this bankruptcy could have and should have been avoided, it does not come as a surprise. TWU engaged special bankruptcy counsel two years ago as a contingency and our attorney Sharon Levine of the firm Lowenstein Sander PC will file claims on behalf of TWU members later today in the U.S. Bankruptcy Court for the Southern District of New York.


that was from tuesday

 

[Overspeed]

Wow, first order of business, after blaming labor of course, was to motion to vacate leases on 24 aircraft in the desert.

Maybe I am just stupid, but it seems paying lease terms on aircraft in the desert is not good business. But worthy of a bonus award for sure!

Some times its cheaper to park them instead of fly them. That would be worth a bonus by minimizing the loss. If you were in the market for your own jet Horton could probably get you a good deal.

 

[Overspeed]

What are we TWU members going to get for representation?

James C Little and a lobbyist named Luby ?

Luby works for the pilots. Our loss their gain.

 

[FWAAA]

Wow, first order of business, after blaming labor of course, was to motion to vacate leases on 24 aircraft in the desert.

Maybe I am just stupid, but it seems paying lease terms on aircraft in the desert is not good business. But worthy of a bonus award for sure!

What would you have done differently?

Would you have flown MD-80s at a loss even though AA was acquiring new, fuel efficient 738s? New 738s where the fuel cost savings probably covered their own lease payments plus the lease payments on the old MD-80s? Could be that the MD-80s were due for heavy C checks that might cost a couple million per plane. Would you have wasted a couple million dollars each to overhaul them and then flown them on money-losing flights?

As others have said, sometimes the best alternative involves spending some money to save a lot of money (or to minimize the losses).

AA is likely to reject many of the leases so that it can either abandon the aircraft or renegotiate the lease rates. That's what airlines do in bankruptcy.

 

[Wretched Wrench]

More status envy I see. What does my avatar have to do with the price of tea in China?

To answer your question, it says a lot about you and your values, as well as your need to show off.

But, no status envy here. However, do I wonder about a person who defines themselves by something they just paid money for.

Now, if you had restored a Staggerwing, that would be a nifty avatar. Even niftier if you could fly it.

I am more impressed by skill and character than cubic money.

 

[767jetz]

To answer your question, it says a lot about you and your values, as well as your need to show off.

But, no status envy here. However, do I wonder about a person who defines themselves by something they just paid money for.

Now, if you had restored a Staggerwing, that would be a nifty avatar. Even niftier if you could fly it.

I am more impressed by skill and character than cubic money.

Lots of assumptions there. You DO realize it's just a car, not a status symbol, right? You also DO realize that it is you and a couple of others who keep bringing up the subject and placing undue value on a material possession, not me, right?

So in your world, having a picture of a hobby as an avatar is all it takes for a person to "show off" and "define themselves?" Sounds like you're the one with the issues. FYI, I participate in racing events. Took classes at their race track in Spartanburg, SC. Used to field a Mustang that I built myself from the ground up. Talk to me again about skill and character when you hold a championship title, and consistently place top 3 in whatever venue of competition or sport you partake. And while you're at it, lighten up. Again... it's just a car.

Enough of this thread hijacking. Can we get back to the subject at hand now?