Official: AMR Bankrupt

[usa1]

I agree with you 100%. At USAirways we pilots gave before BK to "save" the company and our pension. The first thing the company did in BK was take the pension, benefits, retiree healthcare, vacation, working conditions etc,etc. Don't give them anything, make them work for everything they take from you. Bottom line is that At USAirways many years after the BK we are still working for BK wages and our management has rewarded themselves well for our efforts.

Good luck to you all,


Bob

Good, Good advise! Who knows if we end up merged, you may be making my US world a little better

 

[787nightmare]

WT:
"AA will shove deep cuts down the throats of its employees and dismantle as much of its operation as it deems necessary to make the company viable in its eyes long term.
And don't underestimate their desire to ensure that they create a company that even though still unionized does not have the problem areas that have allowed labor-mgmt conflict in the past.
BK is a brutal, brutal process but it is designed first and foremost to give the company the opportunity to restructure on its own and it gives the company enormously powerful tools to do that.
The chances that AA/AMR WON'T achieve what it needs is slim to none - but a whole lot of other entities including labor and a lot of airplane lessors will pay a high price to make it work."

Been through it. Those of you at AA that haven't had the pleasure....this describes it, to a "T".

 

[RevThruster]

you don't seem to understand that the Chapter 11 process offers considerable exclusivity to AMR to clean itself up... and doesn't allow for unsolicited offers for a defined period of time.
You also don't seem to understand or accept that AMR has the tools it needs to restructure its business - the same set of tools that CO and US have used twice and every other network carrier has used once.
You also don't understand or want ot accept that even if it comes down to unsolicited offers for AA/AMR, there is little chance that US can outbid other parties who would be just as interested in acquiring AA.

Of course every other executive at other airlines are looking at how they can pick off AA's best revenue and make it difficult to turn the company around but that doesn't mean AA can't succeed at restructuring, and even if they don't that US will end up "the winner".
.
I have a feeling a whole lot of people would disagree with you about which airline they would prefer to fail.... your narrowminded, self-centered focus is more than a tad apparent.
.
Put away your fantasies of AA fixing US' problems... AA has their time to fix their house and that is what they are going to do.

I know the process VERY WELL WT, and it doesn't have to be USAIRWAYS bank account that buys AA, the money can come from many different streams. Time will tell I suppose, since I don't have a dog on the AA or US side of the fight, I don't let my emotions dictate my posts as some do.

 

[WorldTraveler]

I know the process VERY WELL WT, and it doesn't have to be USAIRWAYS bank account that buys AA, the money can come from many different streams. Time will tell I suppose, since I don't have a dog on the AA or US side of the fight, I don't let my emotions dictate my posts as some do.

and every source of cash that US could come up with, so could others.
.
No horse in the race SHOULD mean you give AA the time and space to effect its own reorg... if they fail or the competitive assault is larger than AA can handle, then all bets are off. Barely one day after their filing, I think it's a bit premature to be making predictions about their future.

 

[Duke787]

As Gordon Bethune, former CEO of Continental Airlines, told CNBC: "This is the inevitability of an irrational workforce."


http://www.star-telegram.com/2011/11/29/3559159/now-american-airlines-unions-will.html

 

[strikeforce]

I would just remind our experts that are salivating at the mouth about managements' power in BK....whether or not our CBA is involuntarily shredded or abrogated there is ONE thing that a BK judge can NEVER do and that's telling ME how to do my job as a licensed aircraft mechanic. I still control the process as to which I accomplish my job.....and that job will always be done VERBATIM per the manuals, and if that means delays and cancellations, so be it!!!!!! No judge will be telling me how to do my job......that's for sure!!!! Have fun salivating and watching REAL people get hosed while your executive buddies make millions on the backs of the workers. I hope Arpey and his clown buddies can sleep at night after hosing 85,000 good employees because maybe that's the type of individuals that they are.......no morals and unethical, and they now fall into the same category as Lorenzo, but there's one thing I truly believe in "what goes around comes around" and one day the clowns will get theirs.....that's for damn sure!!!!!!

There will be no helping this company anymore.....everything going forward will be done IAW the manuals VERBATIM, and I hope my licensed colleagues follow in my footsteps. The line has been drawn in the sand and whatever happens, happens because after giving 9 years of concessions and now facing much more drastic concessions.....I don't care what happens to American Airlines!!!!!!!!!

 

[767jetz]

YES YOU DUMBASS YOU TOOK ALL THE 1.6 BILLION IN CONCESSIONS ALONE what a patethic pices of s$$$$$$$$$$$ you are

Looks like you are the dumbass. I did not say AA pilots took all the concessions. I said they took a bigger hit than anyone else. I am also not the one blaming any one group for AA's Bk filing. Just defending the APA who seem to be the target. Did you even read what I was responding to before you VOMITED all over the keyboard?

Here's another interesting fact for the uninformed, who like to blame everyone else: When concessions come the pilots take the biggest hit. But when good times roll in and its time for a raise, the same people who cheer for the pilots to fork over their hard won contract, don't want to pony up a commensurate payback. Just look at the first comment on this thread about the AMR's offer being a "good faith" effort to produce a fair contract for APA. Talk about uninformed!

We are already hearing it from Smisek over at UA. His new tag line is "We will not not pay a penny more than a competitive wage for any one employee group. So when the pilots gave up pensions, over 40% of their pay, plus work rules and productivity in our bankruptcy it was 3x what any other group gave up. But now we are not entitled to a penny more than anyone else while UAL makes $Billions (with a "B") in profits.

AMR is no different. Same circus - Different clowns, when it comes to management. Again, I say good for APA! I hope they continue to take a hard line.

 

[767jetz]

Is that your BMW in your profile picture, concessions are tough. DUMBASS

More status envy I see. What does my avatar have to do with the price of tea in China?

FYI, my car has nothing to do with my aviation career. My wife is responsible for that. Thankfully she made a MUCH better career choice than me. Any other stupid questions?

 

[767jetz]

That's what he drives. Ask him what the wifey drives. And those are only the daily drivers. If they have kids, bet the first one to hit 16 gets the BMW for a commuter back and forth from school. But I will say this. If we all were making the same amount as the pilots, my kids too would be driving the same cars for a school commuter. However, my wifey wants the new 2012 Jag XF or XK Coupe, and I will make it happen, but it will take some changes to make it happen. In other words, don't knock the man for what he drives, we all live within our means, the pilots have higher means than we (mechanics) do, we have higher means than F/A's do, and so on. BTW if it is a status quo you want to live by then by yourself a BMW used, no one will ever know you bought it used, hell that pilot your slamming more than likely bought it used and saved 50%. If he didn't, then maybe I might call him a dumbass...

Thanks for the post. Very well said. Live within your means. Don't blame the rest of the world for those means. Anyone can apply to flight school, or grad school, or medical school, or law school.

And no, not used. Bought it through Euro-Delivery at a substantial discount. Picked it up in Munich, drove the Autobahn, shipped it to the states, saved thousands.

 

[Overspeed]

Thanks for the post. Very well said. Live within your means. Don't blame the rest of the world for those means. Anyone can apply to flight school, or grad school, or medical school, or law school.

And no, not used. Bought it through Euro-Delivery at a substantial discount. Picked it up in Munich, drove the Autobahn, shipped it to the states, saved thousands.

You could have at least thrown some Lufthansa Technik execs in the trunk while you were there! We need help!

 

[AV1]

More status envy I see. What does my avatar have to do with the price of tea in China?

FYI, my car has nothing to do with my aviation career. My wife is responsible for that. Thankfully she made a MUCH better career choice than me. Any other stupid questions?

Just one stupid question, actually three. How much is the true market value of an airline pilot as opposed to many other regional carriers, etc who work for much less. Does flying a wide body, oops I mean turning on the autopilot that mechanics on the ground maintain, really deserve the 6 figure salaries they are getting? Sure, in the time of need, maybe, but after repetitious training etc. and with the redundant systems in place, is it really worth asking for and demanding a 10 percent in the worst economic cycle, above all other regional carriers, etc. for a raise while basically screwing all of the other employees in bankruptcy. Just saying. My family thanks you.

 

[paul1]

? when do they get to the part about what they are going to take or leave in reference to the employees that are left. How does that get resolved?

 

[kentky95]

Just one stupid question, actually three. How much is the true market value of an airline pilot as opposed to many other regional carriers, etc who work for much less. Does flying a wide body, oops I mean turning on the autopilot that mechanics on the ground maintain, really deserve the 6 figure salaries they are getting? Sure, in the time of need, maybe, but after repetitious training etc. and with the redundant systems in place, is it really worth asking for and demanding a 10 percent in the worst economic cycle, above all other regional carriers, etc. for a raise while basically screwing all of the other employees in bankruptcy. Just saying. My family thanks you.

just my 2 cents, anybody that can fly a regional jet could also fly a wide body and anybody that works at McDonalds could also be a flight attendant.

 

[TWU informer]

Wow, first order of business, after blaming labor of course, was to motion to vacate leases on 24 aircraft in the desert.

Maybe I am just stupid, but it seems paying lease terms on aircraft in the desert is not good business. But worthy of a bonus award for sure!

 

[WorldTraveler]

Wow, first order of business, after blaming labor of course, was to motion to vacate leases on 24 aircraft in the desert.

Maybe I am just stupid, but it seems paying lease terms on aircraft in the desert is not good business. But worthy of a bonus award for sure!

true but flying planes that you can't profitably use is even worse... esp. if some of them are fleet types that AA doesn't even use.
This of course is the easiest step to do... sorting through the operating fleet and deciding what stays will be much more complex.

Paul1,
I presume you mean in terms of pay cuts... it will probably take a couple months but AA will move quickly.. there are A FEW procedures they have to follow before they tell the judge what they want and then he thinks for a few hours what to do.